HPL No VII Euro 10w20 15,000 Miles 2013 Elantra

[spasm3]

Oil in service since Jan 2023. 15k on oil 118k on car at end of oci. This was a first run of HPL in this car. There was 1 quart of make up oil added, not due to useage, but due to filter change/check.

Filter was changed at 3k minimal debris, and 7k with minimal debris. Remaining 8k was on 1 filter with further added oil. With discussion with @wwillson , i decided to run this to 15k on the first run, since filter checks looked good. Oil was very dark at the 7k mark.

I forgot to catch a sample mid stream so i poured some from the filter and the remain-er of the sample was catching the drip from the oil drain hole.

I realize this was not optimal. But i did want to know the viscosity after 15k miles on the first run. Oil was changed to HPL No VII pcmo 5w-30.

 

[addyguy]

Thickened up quite a bit, but TBN still solid after 15k.

 

[Propflux01]

TBN is getting a bit low, but that Oxy tells me the oil is pretty much done.

 

[spasm3]

Thickened up quite a bit, but TBN still solid after 15k.

Yes the data sheet lists it as 9.0 virgin , it went to 11.0 cst @100c.

 

[spasm3]

TBN is getting a bit low, but that Oxy tells me the oil is pretty much done.

I wonder since this oil is such a cleaning oil, is that oxidation is partially from being a first run in this car, or this is as far as it should go in this driving application?

@RDY4WAR , what do you think of the oxidation?

 

[Glenda W.]

HPL has a high virgin oxidation.

 

[wwillson]

TBN is getting a bit low, but that Oxy tells me the oil is pretty much done.

The normalized oxidation of this oil it probably around 10, so it has plenty of life left. Esters and ANs make virgin oil look highly oxidized. The TBN is on the lower side, but still ok and if it were me I'd run it to 20k since there was minimal carbon found in the filter and no data point is even close to a condemnation limit.

 

[Propflux01]

Then

The normalized oxidation of this oil it probably around 10, so it has plenty of life left. Esters and ANs make virgin oil look highly oxidized. The TBN is on the lower side, but still ok and if it were me I'd run it to 20k since there was minimal carbon found in the filter and no data point is even close to a condemnation limit.

Then why they flag it, along with the viscosity change as well. It still may have “some” life in it, but it’s clear to me the oil is dying. Why stretch it out any worse than it is?

 

[RDY4WAR]

Then

Then why they flag it, along with the viscosity change as well. It still may have “some” life in it, but it’s clear to me the oil is dying. Why stretch it out any worse than it is?

Because the lab tech who ran it is likely unfamiliar with that oil and just going off a sheet that says "Flag if over 25" or something to that effect. This is why I mostly disregard lab comments and flags in favor of my own judgement. I know that oil has a starting oxidation of 20-25, thus a result of 30 after 15k miles is low in relative terms. If this was a standard API oil, with a virgin oxidation of <10, then the result of 30 would be significant.

Many esters increase oxidation value. FTIR can't discern ester C=O bonds from actual oxidation. It all looks the same to the machine, giving similar peaks in similar areas, thus giving a falsely high oxidation value. This is why VOAs are valuable in better understanding UOAs.

The TBN is likely the same. They probably just flag it regardless under a certain value, even though we know that oil can still go 3-5k longer before actually depleting the TBN below condemnation.

Keep in mind that the people running these samples are not experts in lubricants. They're just lab techs working a first job out of college making $14/hr (if that). They likely couldn't tell you what additives any of those elements are from. Most active members here on BITOG are more knowledgeable in lubricants than they are. (though I may be giving too much credit to some of you out there ) They just run the sample and flag something if it's above whatever static threshold they have for that element or value. They may not even do that. The program may do it automatically and they're just running the sample.

 

[spasm3]

The normalized oxidation of this oil it probably around 10, so it has plenty of life left. Esters and ANs make virgin oil look highly oxidized. The TBN is on the lower side, but still ok and if it were me I'd run it to 20k since there was minimal carbon found in the filter and no data point is even close to a condemnation limit.

I plan, on this fill, to go 25k.

 

[53' Stude]

TBN is getting a bit low, but that Oxy tells me the oil is pretty much done.

Without a baseline and VOA you can’t tell him this.

 

[spasm3]

Without a baseline and VOA you can’t tell him this.

+1
The VOA's of HPL oils i've looked at show a virgin sample has an oxidation number in the 20's.

 

[53' Stude]

+1
The VOA's of HPL oils i've looked at show a virgin sample has an oxidation number in the 20's.

Exactly! Some folks just like to show their opinions INSTEAD of facts. Nothing new there.

Anyways, OP: thank You for the UOA and info

 

[spasm3]

Exactly! Some folks just like to show their opinions INSTEAD of facts. Nothing new there.

Anyways, OP: thank You for the UOA and info

Thats ok. I don't mind opinions.

 

[wpod]

I would imagine the oil is a straight 20W base oil so the thickening isn't that bad other than at freezing cold starting temps.

 

[CleverUserName]

Then

Then why they flag it, along with the viscosity change as well. It still may have “some” life in it, but it’s clear to me the oil is dying. Why stretch it out any worse than it is?

I would agree. The oil properties have changed enough to show degradation has occurred. Why would you try to run the oil until it is 100% used up and wear is accelerated?

Other than delusion or bragging rights it doesn’t make sense to push it farther.

 

[buster]

Yes the data sheet lists it as 9.0 virgin , it went to 11.0 cst @100c.

A jump of 2 cSt in a very shear stable oil with no signs of oxidation when looking at virgin to used, it's not a concern.

 

[Propflux01]

I would agree. The oil properties have changed enough to show degradation has occurred. Why would you try to run the oil until it is 100% used up and wear is accelerated?

Other than delusion or bragging rights it doesn’t make sense to push it farther.

Well, to each his/her own. I'll back out and just let the experts voice their opinions instead.

 

[wwillson]

I would agree. The oil properties have changed enough to show degradation has occurred.

What measured value shows that the oil has degraded?

 

[spasm3]

Why would you try to run the oil until it is 100% used up and wear is accelerated?

I agree not running it until 100% used up. But with a TBN remaining of 3.3 and only a 10pt rise in oxidation. I don't think the oil was used up.

I did change the oil at the 15k mark as this was the first run of this oil, and i'm sure there was some residual oil from the previous oil ( castrol edge 5w40) in the engine for this oci.