HPL cleaning - just sitting in oil

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,245
Location
Ontario, Canada
So, many saw my filter pic, with the "stuff" (I called it varnish) in the bottom of the can, on the bottom of the media cartridge and all over the combo spring/relief valve. You could wipe it off with a paper towel, but it was definitely not fluid, it was, very much, like varnish and deposited on these surfaces.

So, I indicated in the filter thread that I was going to run an experiment with the oil that's currently in the vehicle, @High Performance Lubricants Super Car 0w-40, which has a pretty healthy dose of AN's and POE, both of which clean. The conditions are clearly suboptimal, as this is being done at room temperature.

I said I was going to give it a week, but I checked on it today and figured I would share those results. I'll update at the end of the week again.

Before:
7A454326-70B4-44F5-9279-B3CFAAC8003C_1_105_c.jpeg

Now:
A4B3E111-F196-400C-88BA-F5AB41F2C636_1_105_c.jpeg


When I pulled it out of the oil, the drips of oil coming off the unit were leaving smears of dark in the oil as they landed in it, you can see several of them between 9 and 12 here:
672C418B-8208-4388-BFB2-37E3C8D15874_1_105_c.jpeg


I've placed it back into the oil and will continue to let it sit.

Pictures were all taken in the same location, which is on top of the dryer in my basement, with the same lighting, using the same camera and same app.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
48,623
Location
New Jersey
Interesting. I tried a quart of that in our Honda V6, and it didn’t remove the light sludge on the dipstick crosshatch in a meaningful way.

I wonder if this was any other clean oil, if it would have solvency and detergent to remove that junk.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,245
Location
Ontario, Canada
Interesting. I tried a quart of that in our Honda V6, and it didn’t remove the light sludge on the dipstick crosshatch in a meaningful way.

I wonder if this was any other clean oil, if it would have solvency and detergent to remove that junk.
This isn't the cleaner, this is one of their oils. Not sure how that compares? 🤷‍♂️

I tossed the filter, but since I'm only doing a segment of this, I could do another segment with the oil that came out of it, Ravenol SSL 0w-40 if there is interest in that?
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
48,623
Location
New Jersey
This isn't the cleaner, this is one of their oils. Not sure how that compares? 🤷‍♂️

I tossed the filter, but since I'm only doing a segment of this, I could do another segment with the oil that came out of it, Ravenol SSL 0w-40 if there is interest in that?
Yeah I got that this was the oil. I had some cleaner from @The Critic that I used in our van last oci. I suspect many of the components are the same in these products.

I think if you have a similarly soiled coupon of metal from the filter, testing in ravenol would be great. While different spots in the filter could have different types of soil, and different adhesion characteristics, it would be interesting to see all the same.
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
549
Location
USA
The engine cleaner would definitely take more time and heat to work. It is actually made with completely different materials. The engine cleaner is meant for a slow controlled clean up. As part of its intended function will lead to it being trashed its fair to say we don’t use materials as expensive as we do in the oil.

The cleaner is a good intermediate step before switching to the oil.

David
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
48,623
Location
New Jersey
The engine cleaner would definitely take more time and heat to work. It is actually made with completely different materials. The engine cleaner is meant for a slow controlled clean up. As part of its intended function will lead to it being trashed its fair to say we don’t use materials as expensive as we do in the oil.

The cleaner is a good intermediate step before switching to the oil.

David
Are we talking basestocks, add pack, or both? Given the dilution factor of adding one quart of cleaner to a sump of oil, I’d have to think that the relative concentrations of additives would be pretty strong as compared to the fully formulated oil.

If the base stock is doing the cleaning here, with different solvency for the sludge than other oils, then is that sort of base stock in quantity not used in the cleaner?

I get it that some of this is proprietary… but I’m surprised that the amounts in the cleaner wouldn’t be higher to do it’s job. I’d expect for some group I and a decent blend of stuff to be in there as they provide different solvency for different sludges and deposits.

The key in the OP though is how much of this is by virtue of new oil versus the specific oil? Would you expect the same results if the cleaner was used?
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
549
Location
USA
So we start with Group III and go up from there in our plant. The esters are different as well as the additives. The oil Overkill has is a PAO/AN/Ester.

I agree with you on concentration if you were looking at the cleaner neat. At that strength the cleaner would be higher in ester. Yet they are still different.

Perhaps the nature of the deposit and the formula of this particular oil are such that it cleans easier.

You raise a good question of new vs used oil. I would not expect there to be a significant reduction in activity as the oil ages. The concern would be overcoming the detergent dispersant package which is the sole driver for cleaning slowly with the cleaner.

If comparing the cleaner mixed 1:5 I would expect it to be noticeably slower.

I hope that helps.

David
 

JHZR2

Staff member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
48,623
Location
New Jersey
So we start with Group III and go up from there in our plant. The esters are different as well as the additives. The oil Overkill has is a PAO/AN/Ester.

I agree with you on concentration if you were looking at the cleaner neat. At that strength the cleaner would be higher in ester. Yet they are still different.

Perhaps the nature of the deposit and the formula of this particular oil are such that it cleans easier.

You raise a good question of new vs used oil. I would not expect there to be a significant reduction in activity as the oil ages. The concern would be overcoming the detergent dispersant package which is the sole driver for cleaning slowly with the cleaner.

If comparing the cleaner mixed 1:5 I would expect it to be noticeably slower.

I hope that helps.

David
Good stuff, thanks!

Goes back to the need for balanced oil design and blending… with the end in mind.

And it’s nice to see the efficacy of the PAO/AN/Ester (+adds) in the HPL product @OVERKILL is running.

I think depending upon how he gets the next samples, it should be the HPL oil. another syn and a conventional oil if he has some.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,477
This isn't the cleaner, this is one of their oils. Not sure how that compares? 🤷‍♂️
If memory serves me, Dave told me that the cleaner is more gentle than the oil. If he's reading this, I'm sure he'll jump in ... Oh, I see he already did.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,245
Location
Ontario, Canada
If memory serves me, Dave told me that the cleaner is more gentle than the oil. If he's reading this, I'm sure he'll jump in ... Oh, I see he already did.
Yes, this product is more aggressive.

I'm going to cut open the RAM filter today. It was on M1 EP for twice the interval, but same usage profile. I suspect it will be clean.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
363
Location
Great Lakes
If the supercar oil is more aggressive, why not just use it for an OCI instead of an EC?

It may be slightly more expensive in cost than EC+ Oil + short OCI but you get a finished product. Then you would not be mixing the HDEO addpack of EC with the current add pack your oil has.

I did not know their oils did active cleaning, I thought it kept things clean? But from the sounds of it the oils are more aggressive at cleaning than the EC itself. I may do this going forward. A 0w-30 supercar oil with a high HT/HS would be the ticket. That could be a universal oil.
 

Shel_B

Site Donor 2022
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
2,477
If the supercar oil is more aggressive, why not just use it for an OCI instead of an EC?
My understanding is that at first, you want a gentle cleaning so that filters and small passages are not overloaded. Dave suggests that before switching to an HPL oil it may be a good idea to use the cleaner first.

The engine cleaner would definitely take more time and heat to work. It is actually made with completely different materials. The engine cleaner is meant for a slow controlled clean up. As part of its intended function will lead to it being trashed its fair to say we don’t use materials as expensive as we do in the oil.

The cleaner is a good intermediate step before switching to the oil.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
363
Location
Great Lakes
Can't stop thinking about EC? I wonder if it is possible to formulate an "EC2" which has the same esters as the supercar oil and designed to stay in for the entire OCI?

According the HPL Dave the esters in supercar oil are more aggressive I'm cleaning am designed to stay in longer.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
52,245
Location
Ontario, Canada
OK, updating this, as it has sat for a while and I pulled it out and let it drip off for a few days. You can see the line created where below, the cleaning took place. There are drops of very dark oil congregated along the edge from where I was letting it drip off:
IMG_3722.jpeg


Just touching it with a paper towel and it was clean.

So, I've re-run the experiment using the back of the unit, on the other end:
IMG_3723.jpeg

putting it in the Ravenol that was in the engine when this was experienced:
IMG_3725.jpeg


We'll see if anything similar happens.
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Messages
3,906
OK, updating this, as it has sat for a while and I pulled it out and let it drip off for a few days. You can see the line created where below, the cleaning took place. There are drops of very dark oil congregated along the edge from where I was letting it drip off:
View attachment 109808

Just touching it with a paper towel and it was clean.

So, I've re-run the experiment using the back of the unit, on the other end:
View attachment 109809
putting it in the Ravenol that was in the engine when this was experienced:
View attachment 109810

We'll see if anything similar happens.

Nice.

That oil is some great stuff, for sure! Pretty amazing.
 
Top