I know another HPL discussion but being a big fan of Schaffer I just wanted to explore different options in the 5w30 game. As HPL seems to be getting more and more attention and I’m thinking this may be a viable option towards the longevity of a GDI engine. I know that there are plenty of off the shelf options but HPL has really piqued my interest. I’m well accustomed to the Bitog banter of responses so bring it on and let’s get it over with. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
HPL 5W30 for new 24 Hyundai palisade
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You can’t go wrong with HPL.
Slam! Bam! Pow!
The only negatives I would say with HPL would be the higher cost of the oil an having it shipped which could be easily offset by extended drain intervals and possible warranty.
If you ever have an engine issue (it is a Hyundai) they may ask for documentation of maintenance records. Make sure you keep and log all receipts. Not to frighten and put the scare tactics but if you extend the drain they may fight the warranty claim because you didn't follow and you used an oil that does not have the API certification. It exceeds all the requirements as proven by many here but at that point you are out a vehicle and your lawyer $$, time, energy against their lawyer $$/ corporate / customer service.
They might play nice as many have said and they paid the $200 "inspection" fee so they could see the motor is spotless and maintained but that is a possible.
The hope would be that it's great oil, maybe prevent the Hyundai issues from showing but for how long? I have a Pilot with known tranny issues, I changed tranny fluid almost every 7k and fluid in poor condition each time, dealer confirmed that. No trouble codes though so I probably made it live long enough that it will die right after extended warranty expires. That's something I'll have to live with by trying to do the right thing, or not, and get rid of rid of it before then.
If you ever have an engine issue (it is a Hyundai) they may ask for documentation of maintenance records. Make sure you keep and log all receipts. Not to frighten and put the scare tactics but if you extend the drain they may fight the warranty claim because you didn't follow and you used an oil that does not have the API certification. It exceeds all the requirements as proven by many here but at that point you are out a vehicle and your lawyer $$, time, energy against their lawyer $$/ corporate / customer service.
They might play nice as many have said and they paid the $200 "inspection" fee so they could see the motor is spotless and maintained but that is a possible.
The hope would be that it's great oil, maybe prevent the Hyundai issues from showing but for how long? I have a Pilot with known tranny issues, I changed tranny fluid almost every 7k and fluid in poor condition each time, dealer confirmed that. No trouble codes though so I probably made it live long enough that it will die right after extended warranty expires. That's something I'll have to live with by trying to do the right thing, or not, and get rid of rid of it before then.
Thanks for the responses. Here is what the owner manual states as far as requirements. I certainly understand that using HPL is not the most cost effective alternative but my hope is that it will help prolong the well known and dreaded GDI oil consumption issue. As for warranty issues I do use a reputable indy mechanic who lets me bring my own oil and filter along with giving me receipt documentation of work performed. I would just ask for him to omit the brand used hopefully that would keep the warranty pencil pushers at bay. As I would still follow my usual 5K oil & filter change. Which begs the question has anyone here ever have an engine warranty issue denied based on an oil test or inspection.
The requirements are not all that stringent and I'm kinda shocked that Hyundai isn't recommending an API SP.
Just to reiterate that you need to go the full oci to obtain the full benefit of HPL. I would not use HPL if you're a sufferer of wrench boredom where you have this constant tug to "do something" on the car under the premise that the engine will last for some yet to be defined mileage/age. If you're that guy then run Mobil 1 FS or Pennzoil Euro as they both meet the performance requirements of SP and won't break the bank on a 5k mile oci.
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As great as HPL may be, I'd not use it in those scenario. I agree with @BMWTurboDzl regarding the Extended OCI. I'd just find a stout off the shelf oil with a relatively high hths, and follow the severe OCI.
You can read in the debates, pros, cons, fanboy, hater, believer, non-believer, Motor Oil Geek videos. etc.
If all is to be believed as true for all it's qualities, Valvoline Restore & Protect 5W-30 is $30 at Walmart. API SP rated (latest) and ILSAC GF-6A (latest) so follow all your #3 notes. Doesn't list any ACEA on the jug, I double checked my 5W-30 VRP bottle just in case. That would meet all the requirements, should keep rings clear, not break the bank and no issue documenting what was used.
Unless you know how your engine reacts to the kind of use in your daily it is hard to say. GDI from the vehicles I have are fine (so far) with my highway use in my '17 Accord which burns some and has since I bought it but also sees redline with my manual transmission. UOA came back fine at about 7500 miles but needed oil added by then to keep full.
My GDI Pilot had higher wear metals with factory MM about 7500 miles. Future DIL '21 Tucson had some bad fuel dilution at 6k with really nasty semi syn oil. Both of those vehicles get very short trip with oil barely getting warm 5 days per week, about 2-3 miles each way for work. Not enough time to burn off junk.
Pilot is now on a planned 5k interval, Tucson on 3k/6months so I can get the crappy oil out. When my current stash between them runs out, VRP will be used in them.
FIL got his Jeep Renegade motor replaced at 82k under warranty from oil burning and pressure issues. They said his cylinders were scored also. He used a variety of shop and dealer 0W-20 oils prior but changed on MM schedule. His new motor is on VRP 5W-30 and will stay on that as of now with the 4k severe service schedule.
I still think that HPL is better but on cost for me with short changes doesn't justify IMO for my particular use. I'm even contemplating SuperTech in some but really like the VRP things I have seen.
HPL EC30 in my sons '10 Forte cleaned up enough things already that his morning cold start, piston slap is seriously reduced. Enough that my wife made a comment about it and he still comments on it. That was using the same M1 or PP I was prior. I have pictures of the junk HPL cleared from his Forte and daughters CRV in the threads. I'm using a qt of HPL in their cars and my Accord hoping to slowly clean more and feeling very confident that it will from my own experience and others.
If all is to be believed as true for all it's qualities, Valvoline Restore & Protect 5W-30 is $30 at Walmart. API SP rated (latest) and ILSAC GF-6A (latest) so follow all your #3 notes. Doesn't list any ACEA on the jug, I double checked my 5W-30 VRP bottle just in case. That would meet all the requirements, should keep rings clear, not break the bank and no issue documenting what was used.
Unless you know how your engine reacts to the kind of use in your daily it is hard to say. GDI from the vehicles I have are fine (so far) with my highway use in my '17 Accord which burns some and has since I bought it but also sees redline with my manual transmission. UOA came back fine at about 7500 miles but needed oil added by then to keep full.
My GDI Pilot had higher wear metals with factory MM about 7500 miles. Future DIL '21 Tucson had some bad fuel dilution at 6k with really nasty semi syn oil. Both of those vehicles get very short trip with oil barely getting warm 5 days per week, about 2-3 miles each way for work. Not enough time to burn off junk.
Pilot is now on a planned 5k interval, Tucson on 3k/6months so I can get the crappy oil out. When my current stash between them runs out, VRP will be used in them.
FIL got his Jeep Renegade motor replaced at 82k under warranty from oil burning and pressure issues. They said his cylinders were scored also. He used a variety of shop and dealer 0W-20 oils prior but changed on MM schedule. His new motor is on VRP 5W-30 and will stay on that as of now with the 4k severe service schedule.
I still think that HPL is better but on cost for me with short changes doesn't justify IMO for my particular use. I'm even contemplating SuperTech in some but really like the VRP things I have seen.
HPL EC30 in my sons '10 Forte cleaned up enough things already that his morning cold start, piston slap is seriously reduced. Enough that my wife made a comment about it and he still comments on it. That was using the same M1 or PP I was prior. I have pictures of the junk HPL cleared from his Forte and daughters CRV in the threads. I'm using a qt of HPL in their cars and my Accord hoping to slowly clean more and feeling very confident that it will from my own experience and others.
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It is cost effective if you extend the drain interval. If you sticking with something like 5-7k changes then yes it will be pricey.
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Fine print states requires API latest ot ilsac latest. 23 manuals actually state SP. One thing to note is whether or falls into severe service category which would be every 6 months or 4k miles basically. Otherwise it's 1 yr, 8k.
Well I certainly appreciate the comments as this is what I was looking to hear. I’m slowly backing away from the HPL ledge now as everyone seems to agree that a 5K drain interval doesn’t justify the use of HPL. I guess that I may just drop back down to my old standby Schaffer which isnt a whole lot less expensive but has always been good to me. My Hemi 5.7 ran like a swiss clock on the 5w20.
wemay
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'22 Palisade owner here (actually the wife's)
We just use whatever API SP major 5W-30 Synthetic is on sale. It currently has Mobil FS in the sump. With more of that on deck. It's taken two round trips from Miami to Toronto and countless others from Miami to the west coast of Florida and has been flawless. Granted, because my wife idles the heck out it, the OCI is 3k miles. But it has been absolutely flawless on Mobil1, Mobil FS, Castrol Edge (most oci were with this) and one change with Total.
We just use whatever API SP major 5W-30 Synthetic is on sale. It currently has Mobil FS in the sump. With more of that on deck. It's taken two round trips from Miami to Toronto and countless others from Miami to the west coast of Florida and has been flawless. Granted, because my wife idles the heck out it, the OCI is 3k miles. But it has been absolutely flawless on Mobil1, Mobil FS, Castrol Edge (most oci were with this) and one change with Total.
Define/quantify not a whole lot less expensive.
From what I can see on quick search 9000 doesn't show any API or ILSAC certifications, their 7000 does from what I saw. Like HPL probably, not worth their money to pay for additional certs when they feel or know that the oil far surpasses that minimum standard. That then is the same lawyer $$ arguments of non certified oil use if motor develops extra ventilation in the block.
You were looking for something to keep GDI oil burning issues under control which I think many of us take to be oil control ring issues as a large cause. M1, PP, QS, Valvoline, Castrol, ST and countless others have also been very good to a lot of members and our motors ran great for many 100k's and some that barely burned oil. M1/PP had my 4.7L Sequoia at 7500k changes with no oil use at over 180k on trips, towing etc.
Chemistry and knowledge changes provide options. Some very well respected (IMO) members ran those quality oils and at some point tried HPL and were amazed how much stuff was in filters that they never had before and borescopes to show differences. Some of them reduce oil burning also keeping motor teardown/repair away. The VRP seems to be doing a lot of the same things at a lesser cost and commercially available.
Ignoring the environmental waste things, time and labor costs etc. just $$ on oil and filters. How many changes with filter of M1, PP, QS, Valvoline, Castrol, ST could you do vs Schaeffer or HPL? Is it 2-1? Would 2500 mile changes protect better if you could do 2? Would you notice the difference in your ownership life of the vehicle? Which will make you sleep better at night?
Schaeffer I think has a very good reputation for quality and also a large industrial clientele that have different needs than some of the standard testing and have proven their worth to many. Does it clean the same as HPL? Maybe. If you had run HPL or VRP in the Hemi after all the years/miles on Schaeffer what would show in the filters or borescope? WWilson might be able to share some details on that.
HPL, Schaeffer, M1, PP, QS, Valvoline, Castrol, ST at severe service intervals would all probably be just fine for life of vehicle. UOA with them might show that you have no issue going factory MM or even more. Some will probably hold up better than others over that time so possibly worth the extra $$ to go safely and comfortably to 10k instead of 5k.
You can go the full BITOG paralysis by analysis and always wonder if you are doing the best. You can pick any of the above that make you happy. If you start to notice oil burning you can always switch to a better cleaning oil, do piston soaks and other things to keep it under control or fix it. Hopefully it didn't come from cylinder wall scoring and then you'll have PTSD on why you didn't use one of the others to prevent it from the beginning.
If I had taken the road trips up north and spent money on Fluid Film, Woolwax or Krown the Sequoia might be wife's daily driver still and have 250k+ but that didn't happen.
I also have the Hyundai/Kia 3.8L V6 and used Valvoline 5w30 XL-III for 50k.
I recently switched to HPL Euro 0w30 for its cleaning ability. I’m also concerned about this engine long term as it’s common for the rings to go and oil consumption to become prevalent in the 75k+ range.
I recently switched to HPL Euro 0w30 for its cleaning ability. I’m also concerned about this engine long term as it’s common for the rings to go and oil consumption to become prevalent in the 75k+ range.
Probably not. The 2L nu engine in my wife's car has pretty bad fuel dilution. Which prompts oil changes as soon as 3,500 miles in the winter.
Now if Hyundai fixed the fuel dilution problem or you're going to be doing a lot of highway driving the hpl is a fine choice.
I don't run hpl in my wife's car because I would be wasting it.
Remember HPL isn't just good for long changes, it is also going to resist the effects of fuel dilution while maintaining protection very well with the added benefit of likely pushing your changes out a bit, safely. Haven't used Schaffers oil, though I would assume that the 9000 series is similar to HPL as well in those aspects. So really you are comparing oranges to oranges with HPL and Schaffer. If you want to keep your OCI's low and still get some crud out of your engine then VRP is very solid.
this.OP. I’ve done 5k intervals with OTS synthetics and have stuck rings. In the middle of a R&P test as we speak on my 18 Outback. Results early next year.
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It can help with permanent viscosity loss when compared to an oil with inferior VM, but it won’t help with dilution which is the primary cause of loss. That’s a simple physical dilution of a higher viscosity fluid with one that is a lower viscosity.
Without knowing what kind of VII Schaeffer’s uses it may be just the same as any other “off the shelf” oil. I haven’t seen anything that shows they are particularly special in that regard.
For sure. Either way it’s a little extra protection buffer and some extra peace-of-mind. I don’t know Schaffer’s oils at all so I can’t comment however, judging by price I just assume they are better quality than normal off-the-shelf offerings.
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