How wings work?

Messages
352
Location
wa

How much would it be worth if I could build a working display to prove all the aerodynamisists have it all wrong of how an aircraft wing works?
 
Messages
1,456
Location
Ca USA
Simply put "Lift is a reaction force experienced by the airfoil due to its
turning of the flow downwards." Krzysztof

Fidkowski's video is my favorite for it explains intuitively how a wing works
(Flow Turning) and it also debunks the popular theories like...

Equal transit time theory
Particle Kinetics theory
Venturi theory

 

Exhaustgases

Thread starter
Messages
352
Location
wa
All the theory's are very lacking. I wish birds could talk and explain, yeah some of them talk, but its just mimicking.
Some theory's think the wing acts like a vacuum cleaner to suck the plane up, sorry that would rip all the old fabric plane wings to shreds, and rip the rivets out of the all metal wings, and bird feathers would be standing on end.
Other theory's say the wing is being a propeller of sorts blowing the wind down (hmmm like the post just above this one), if that is the case then make the wing as thin as a propeller blade or a helicopter blade.
I like how all the videos on the subject basically show nothing important.
What I like is the over use of exotic math to explain something so simple. No wonder most of the best inventors never had a so called higher education.
 
Last edited:
Messages
5,887
Location
Tn.
Im a bicycle rider, I think the Wright Brothers were too. I am guessing those two brothers never went to MIT, Georgia Tech and so on.... hmmmm
 
Messages
8,009
Location
North Carolina
All the theory's are very lacking. I wish birds could talk and explain, yeah some of them talk, but its just mimicking.
Some theory's think the wing acts like a vacuum cleaner to suck the plane up, sorry that would rip all the old fabric plane wings to shreds, and rip the rivets out of the all metal wings, and bird feathers would be standing on end.
Other theory's say the wing is being a propeller of sorts blowing the wind down (hmmm like the post just above this one), if that is the case then make the wing as thin as a propeller blade or a helicopter blade.
I like how all the videos on the subject basically show nothing important.
What I like is the over use of exotic math to explain something so simple. No wonder most of the best inventors never had a so called higher education.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that you have somehow gleaned a new and revolutionary understanding of aerodynamic lift that mathematicians and physicists have somehow missed?

Exhaust gasses, for sure.
 
Messages
1,449
Location
NE Oklahoma
Hilarious. Yes, we have no idea how wings work.

With that lack of knowledge, all we've been able to do in just over 100 years is go from a 12 second, 120 foot flight, to flights across continents, oceans, and continuous flights around the world. We've learned how to fly at low levels, then high levels, and then we flew at sub-orbital levels. We've learned the art of slow flights and fast flights, then bravely pioneered flights faster than the speed of sound and then decided that we could fly multiple time faster than the speed of sound. We've done flights with one passenger, and then flights with 800 passengers. We learned how to fly in space and went to and returned from our only orbiting celestial body, and much more.

Imagine what we could've accomplished had we actually understood how wings create lift...
 
Messages
184
Location
Australia
Simply put "Lift is a reaction force experienced by the airfoil due to its
turning of the flow downwards." Krzysztof

Fidkowski's video is my favorite for it explains intuitively how a wing works
(Flow Turning) and it also debunks the popular theories like...

Equal transit time theory
Particle Kinetics theory
Venturi theory

You must be a good pilot if you are a pilot. Its amazing how many pilots don't understand or even know this. I was lucky enough to have an old test pilot as my instructor over 20 years ago. But I'm not a professional pilot. I didn't fly for long but I still know and understand how too thanks to him.
 
Messages
10,500
Location
Jupiter, Florida
Hilarious. Yes, we have no idea how wings work.
For all of my life, there have been repeated similar claims. The claims that there is a general lack of understanding, knowledge or even that engineers fail to grasp the fundamentals. I speculate this is because information is sometimes a guarded secret, and that sometimes it's just too much information to present.

NASA sent the Galileo probe to Jupiter, then published amazing data. The data was reported in the news, in "Scientific American", in trade publications such as "Aviation Week and Space Technology" and so on. However, I learned during an amazingly EPIC presentation by John Casani one of the scientists involved, that NASA did not disclose every last tidbit of information in their public release of information. Not because they wanted to withhold it from the public, but because it was on the level of a lifetime of study, just to comprehend all of it.

My point was this, NASA and the scientists involved had far more information and far more understanding than the public understands. After being repeatedly told that we don't know that much about Jupiter, I came to understand that in fact, we know it all.
 
Messages
126
Location
97045
It’s very obvious that guys like Adrian Newey have a very clear understanding of how wings work. His cars have won 10 Formula One championships.
 
Messages
16,626
Location
Upper Midwest
All the theory's are very lacking. I wish birds could talk and explain, yeah some of them talk, but its just mimicking.
Some theory's think the wing acts like a vacuum cleaner to suck the plane up, sorry that would rip all the old fabric plane wings to shreds, and rip the rivets out of the all metal wings, and bird feathers would be standing on end.
Other theory's say the wing is being a propeller of sorts blowing the wind down (hmmm like the post just above this one), if that is the case then make the wing as thin as a propeller blade or a helicopter blade.
I like how all the videos on the subject basically show nothing important.
What I like is the over use of exotic math to explain something so simple. No wonder most of the best inventors never had a so called higher education.
There is nothing simple about an ornithopter whatsoever. If you think it's simple then it's because you don't understand it.
 
Messages
1,281
Location
Texas, USA
From a laymen's point of view, I always thought lift was a result of the wing being canted slightly downward from front to rear, producing aerodynamic drag in such a way that the passing air strikes the underside of the wing, pushing it upward.

I've watched explanations of this on aviation shows, where they indicate that the wing shape produces 'low pressure' above the wing, causing lift. Always thought that sounded kind of backward. Never thought of a wing being pulled upward instead of being pushed. I had a lot of time to sit and think about it flying at 30,000 feet for a living, but never thought to ask a pilot how he was taught that it works.
 
Messages
184
Location
Australia
All the theory's are very lacking. I wish birds could talk and explain, yeah some of them talk, but its just mimicking.
Some theory's think the wing acts like a vacuum cleaner to suck the plane up, sorry that would rip all the old fabric plane wings to shreds, and rip the rivets out of the all metal wings, and bird feathers would be standing on end.
Other theory's say the wing is being a propeller of sorts blowing the wind down (hmmm like the post just above this one), if that is the case then make the wing as thin as a propeller blade or a helicopter blade.
I like how all the videos on the subject basically show nothing important.
What I like is the over use of exotic math to explain something so simple. No wonder most of the best inventors never had a so called higher education.
This is what pilots are taught

If the wing was thin it would be to close to the stall to work.

Flying is an art it doesn't really matter if you don't know how it works but it helps if you do.
There is a great old old book called stick and rudder all the answers are in there.
 
Messages
43,650
Location
'Stralia
Simply put "Lift is a reaction force experienced by the airfoil due to its
turning of the flow downwards." Krzysztof

Fidkowski's video is my favorite for it explains intuitively how a wing works
(Flow Turning) and it also debunks the popular theories like...

Equal transit time theory
Particle Kinetics theory
Venturi theory

Will watch the video tonight, but thanks for that...

I came to the conclusion long ago that the way that I was lectured in Air Training Corps was wrong...when I asked about biplanes and triplanes, they looked at me blankly...
 
Messages
26,501
Location
PNW
I've watched explanations of this on aviation shows, where they indicate that the wing shape produces 'low pressure' above the wing, causing lift. Always thought that sounded kind of backward.
An object moves in the direction of applied force. If the pressure above the wing is less than the pressure below, then there is upward force on the wing.

Anyone ever look at the leading edge, cross sectional shape and trailing edge of a birds wing? It's very similar to an airplane wing design. When birds fix their wings outstretched and hold them there to soar and glide, their wings aren't much differently shaped than an airplane wing. Wonder where mankind go the idea? 😀
 

Exhaustgases

Thread starter
Messages
352
Location
wa
From a laymen's point of view, I always thought lift was a result of the wing being canted slightly downward from front to rear, producing aerodynamic drag in such a way that the passing air strikes the underside of the wing, pushing it upward.

I've watched explanations of this on aviation shows, where they indicate that the wing shape produces 'low pressure' above the wing, causing lift. Always thought that sounded kind of backward. Never thought of a wing being pulled upward instead of being pushed. I had a lot of time to sit and think about it flying at 30,000 feet for a living, but never thought to ask a pilot how he was taught that it works.
And you sir are the winner.
The reason mostly for the top shape of the wing is because you have to lump over the top of the spar. A flat top wing will fly, just like a normal looking airfoil will also fly upside down. The birds wing is an inverted cup shape that holds more positive airpressure under its wing. It is the positive air pressure acting on the surface area of the bottom of the wing that makes lift. Just watch some jet fighters in a hard turn bending the wings up or aerobatic planes with wings snapping off its not wind they are forcing down nor is it a huge vacuum sucking them to breaking point, its the motion and the weight and surface area, compressing the air. No one seems to want to talk about the huge positive pressure that the plane is riding on. And proven compressibility during flight just watch some of the vapor coming off the wings in some flight regimes, then watch a science experiment where they create vapor by compressing air in a clear container. Just hang your hand out a car window at 60 mph and feel what pressure causes your hand to fly.
See no math needed. Just some simple thought processes.
 
Top