How to Reduce Viscosity of an Oil Safely

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

Originally Posted By: zach1900

Drain a qt out and add the same brand of oil back in , in a 0w20-0w30 flavor.

There you go, a sensible, simple answer.

How do we know the additives in the 0w-20 don't clash with the additives in the heavier oil? Even in the same brands, we don't know what blenders are adding in. Can you think of a straight petroleum solution, over the counter, halfway ez to get?

I'm going to guess that their isn't such a solution. Like you said, we don't know what the blenders are adding in. So if there is such a solution, you don't know what is in that solution or how it would react. I think it's a good bet that say, M1 0w-20 has the same additives as 5w-30 or 10w-40?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

What would be oil's flash point with added kerosene? I assume you've made this post for fun/academic reasons, not actually doing this in practice? Your oil of 40 grade is thinn enough.

Kerosene will actually bring the FlashPoint down we'd assume. Here in the U.S., there has been this "Marvel Mystery Oil" MMO product around for 50 years or more. Pale oil and mineral spirits in MMO, so like kerosene used at 8% treat rates, will probably just burn off in a couple of thousand miles (3,000 kilometers) anyway, but in the winter will thin the sump oil by about 2 cSt kv100, meaning it should start easier when cold outside and allow better flow. I'm leaning toward using MMO, no additives, just light oil, although I really don't think more than 8% is a great idea.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Trajan

I'm going to guess that their isn't such a solution. Like you said, we don't know what the blenders are adding in. So if there is such a solution, you don't know what is in that solution or how it would react. I think it's a good bet that say, M1 0w-20 has the same additives as 5w-30 or 10w-40?

One could assume that. Blenders can do about anything they want though. Not sure here! CATERHAM blends have been used with great success though, from a UOA standpoint, some evidence.

 

[MolaKule]

For the same manufacturer/blender, the same or similar additive package is used for the various products. The base oil mix for a 0W20 is thinner than say a 10W30, but the additive package should be very similar. I would say it is safer to thin an oil with a 0W20 or such (see Widman's viscosity Calculator for amounts of mixing) than to use a product such as MMO.

Quote:

Goal is to thin an engine oil out a couple of cP at KV100, thats all. Winter use mostly. Also to use a 40 where a 30 is spec'd.

Sounds a bit contradictory there?

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

Quote:

Goal is to thin an engine oil out a couple of cP at KV100, thats all. Winter use mostly. Also to use a 40 where a 30 is spec'd.

Sounds a bit contradictory there?

I don't see the contradiction. ??? Goal is to reduce a 40 to a 30 using something. Maybe just during the winter only (like 3 months of the worst subzero stuff). Say 2 cSt thinning in the winter, and I might consider 1 cSt down in the summer. So M1 0w-40 at 13.5, becomes 12.5 summer and 11.5 winter. The 8% MMO treat rate (1 pint in a 6 quart sump) knocks it down 2, so 4% might be OK in the summer. Also, what are the risks of MMO in 8% or 4% treat rates? Piston deposits? Varnish?

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

Quote:

Goal is to thin an engine oil out a couple of cP at KV100, thats all. Winter use mostly. Also to use a 40 where a 30 is spec'd.

Sounds a bit contradictory there?

I don't see the contradiction. ??? Goal is to reduce a 40 to a 30 using something. Maybe just during the winter only (like 3 months of the worst subzero stuff). Say 2 cSt thinning in the winter, and I might consider 1 cSt down in the summer. So M1 0w-40 at 13.5, becomes 12.5 summer and 11.5 winter. The 8% MMO treat rate (1 pint in a 6 quart sump) knocks it down 2, so 4% might be OK in the summer. Also, what are the risks of MMO in 8% or 4% treat rates? Piston deposits? Varnish?

MMO is mostly kerosene dyed red in a 10w carrier oil. Its flash point is 154deg IIRC. MolaKule did a lab analysis of it some months ago. The contradiction is the goal of thinning the oil while using a 40 where 30 is speced. Why not just use the 30?

 

[demarpaint]

I'd buy Mobil 1 0W30 AFE, use that and call it a day. Save the MMO for if/when you need to clean up the engine.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

Redline has a 4.6 cSt @100ºC synthetic race oil. http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=11&pcid=1 They also have an even lighter oil they call it 2WT but the NOACK is insane and not for elevated temperatures.

Noticed Redline's racing oils. NOACK was off the charts for their lightest, maybe like using straight kerosene would be! The 2wt has a lot of additives in it. Trying to avoid clash of chemicals. Also, they are polyol ester basestocks I think, so not sure what effects that would be mixing with a PAO/GrpIII oil.

The product I recommend has a 12% NOACK

 

[Rand]

What use is this? Most engines will be perfectly fine with a 40wt oil.

 

[OneEyeJack]

My vote is for changing the oil and using a lower viscosity oil and forget that target reduction in cP.

 

[Shannow]

I get what the OP is asking, and certainly think molakule has THE answer to the question asked. But the next question is why you want to do that ? Given that the 40 will likely have higher AW additive concentrations, the blend will likely have higher than either an ILSAC 30 or the 20 - possible plus. The 40 will (likely) have a lower basestock viscosity than a 30 would, and so will the 0W20 - probably minus. The 40 may not have FMs in it that an ILSAC 20 or 30 will likely have. Depending on how far the viscosity is altered, will there be sufficient FMs in the final blend ? - possible minus. Dilution (e.g. kero) gives all of the possible disadvantages (additive dilution, "effective" basestock viscosity) with no upside in relation to the OP's question...I count MMO/Seafoam in this camp. e.g. Penrite Oz recommend blending only within their product streams, and their "racing range" all have the same add pcks from the 0W20 (really a 16, released before the new J300), through to 15W50...the 30 and the 20 have non SN/SM additive packages, and are the only ones with FMs. I'd pick an XW30, ILSAC or A3/B4 depending on where exactly you want your viscosity moved to...there are enough of them. Particularly with mixing a 20 and 40, I think it's a worse compromise than a formulated 30.

 

[expat]

How cold does it get in your part of Oregon? I bet you are likely to do the least harm by just not messing with it. Or What would it cost to just change it to a low cost Dino of the correct weight for the winter?

 

[ExMachina]

Well, I'm getting 24 quarts of M1 0w-40 today, so I'll think about all the above comments. (Sale on Amazon a while back for $4.67 /quart.) ---- Either run it straight, or consider ****gasp**** mixing it with something. Actually, I kind of like the MMO thing, since when I put some in on Dec. 1, it will all be flashed off by March 1. Mixing with M1 EP 0w-20 is a good idea too, just don't know if its necessary to mix so much of that in when I can do a pint of MMO instead. If you want to thicken with only a small amount of something, see http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2701357/2

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

How do we know the additives in the 0w-20 don't clash with the additives in the heavier oil? Even in the same brands, we don't know what blenders are adding in.

I don't like mixing, but I'd rather mix products from the same brand and line than try to find something off the shelf to thin the oil. Generally speaking, though, I just choose a viscosity I like and go with it. Thickening and thinning the oil can easily be precluded by purchasing an appropriate viscosity in the first place. And thinning and oil for winter use may have some unintended consequences, and it's not 1940 any longer. Run the M1 0w-40 straight. If I can run 5w-40 year round, you'll manage with 0w-40.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Mmo probably has little of anyth additive in it.it would still dilute existing additives some I suppose. Sounds like you want a plain base oil to mix. Mmo is probably little more than that.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Originally Posted By: zach1900

Any chemical you add will interfere in some way, just by-products of combustion will, it just depends on if it's a good or bad thing!

I'm concerned about creating more piston deposits. Guess I'd like a groupII or III basestock that has a kv100 of about 4. Additives ez to get out there that'll do this?

add some PAO or POE ac compressor oil, the thinnest you can find.. castrol icematic sw22 has a kv40 of 22 and a kv100 of 5. not much additives either... flashpoint is high, pour point is low, hths is a lot better than kerosene...

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic

add some PAO or POE ac compressor oil, the thinnest you can find.. castrol icematic sw22 has a kv40 of 22 and a kv100 of 5. not much additives either... flashpoint is high, pour point is low, hths is a lot better than kerosene...

Adding PAO to engine oil myself. I didn't think I could get the stuff. Wow, what could adding 10% PAO hurt? Sounds like a good suggestion. Below is for Chevron Cetus PAO compressor oil:

 

[MolaKule]

You guys playing backyard chemists are on a slippery slope.

 

[Trajan]

Just easier to use a 5w-20 instead of a 5w-30 for example. (One that meets mfg spec anyway, IMO). Not as fun as playing chemist. But one less thing to worry about.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina

Originally Posted By: Jetronic

add some PAO or POE ac compressor oil, the thinnest you can find.. castrol icematic sw22 has a kv40 of 22 and a kv100 of 5. not much additives either... flashpoint is high, pour point is low, hths is a lot better than kerosene...

Adding PAO to engine oil myself. I didn't think I could get the stuff. Wow, what could adding 10% PAO hurt? Sounds like a good suggestion. Below is for Chevron Cetus PAO compressor oil:

Won't work...JMO, but I'll explain. Mobil blender's guide for their PAO (not an M1 recipe book as some have tried to infer). A Kg of nominal 0W40 has 341g of 4st PAO, 400g of 6 cst PAO, and 116g of VM (the nominal 0W20 is 166, 665, and 26, which I'll get to later). Basestock on the 0W40 is 5.09cst, and 116g VII. Replace 10% of the oil with 5.9cst PAO (assuming it's unadditised), and the new basestock is 5.16cst...thicker than you started with. VII is reduced to 10.55% of the blend. Honestly don't know how the curves work, but I think that you've diluted your add pack, and probably had little to no effect on viscosity which is what you want to change. As to cutting the 40 with 20, look at the blend guide and see that the 20 has a slightly higher base oil viscosity than the 40. Mix them 50:50, and you get 253.5g of the 4cst, 532.5g of the 6cst, and 71g of VII, which is thicker basestock than the 0W30 for similar VII treats...you'll end up thicker than the formulated 0W30 with the 50:50 blend, and poorer on the cold end than the 0W30 (thicker basestock for as give VII treat). Like I've said previously, I'm not sure that these additives behave linearly, but my interpretation of the only data that I have is that * 10% additiion of 6cst PAO will leave you largely where you currently are * 10% addition of 6cst PAO will dilute your AW additives by about 9% * If you are wanting to thin your 0W40 out to 0W30, you need around 50% 0W20, and then it's (probably) thicker than a shelf bought 0W30 (and with slightly poorer cold end performance).