How much cleaning can Redline do after running Mobil 1?

[YZF150]

I am intrigued by comments in the analysis forum about wear metals and other values that are attributed to the high cleansing action/potential in Redline oils. Even in engines that had a steady treatment of Mobil1, another oil purported to clean well, for multiple or many fills.

How do we know this?
How does it do it?
How do we know when cleansing ends and it is new wear that we see in the results?

Some of this just seems to be too unsubstantiated to be believable. I'm not discounting it outright, but I'd like to know more.

Please expound.

 

[Patman]

This is something Terry Dyson has noticed in reading a considerable amount of UOA data from people who first switched to Redline. He is the one who mentioned this on here.

 

[Scooter]

YZF150,

This topic is closely related to a topic I posted a few days ago http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001841 .
My understanding is that Redline is primarily (all?) polyol ester PE basestock. The ester basestock along with their additive package make it a very potent cleaner. I hope that Terry can chime in and shed some light on this.

 

[Steve S]

Mobil 1 oil is mainly a polyalphaolephin they don't make as much dirt as a petrolium base oil redline has a high amount of esters in their base oil which cleans the deposits off the innards . IMO paos are just an improved petro. molecule. Not knocking them but esters are way above paos in what they do.

 

[buster]

M1 has esters to, but to what percent I don't know. I wouldn't rely on any oil cleaning as well as Autorx if that is what your hoping for. Redline and AMsoil are slightly better at keeping the engine clean from what I've read on here.

 

[Steve S]

Buster I removed 6 month old Redline or Amsoil "don't remember which it was" oil and I put in my work vans compressor ,the oil level sight glass was opaque from the oil never being changed by the previous techs. at work, anyway the syn dissolved the deposits and the sight glass was clear the oil was black. Esters are added as a seal swell additive in original M1 oil.

[ April 16, 2003, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Steve S ]

 

[sprintman]

I have RL in my Outback 2.5 and it is much dirtier than I expected particularly after an Auto-Rx/D1 cleanup (ran 800kms which just ain't enough). I will be changing to Pennzoil Purebase dino/Auto-Rx this week and do a proper clean on this 75,000k engine, probably run it 2,000kms.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

We are very familiar with polyolesters. In fact, we manufacture them and use them in our aviation jet engine oils such as Mobil Jet Oil II® and Mobil Jet Oil 254® and in our refrigeration compressor lubricants, where the polyolesters are utilized for their compatibility with new HFC refrigerants. Polyolesters are indeed excellent at high-temperature oxidation stability and low volatility.

However, our work on automobile engines and jet engine designs has shown that polyalphaolefins (PAOs) offer the best all-around performance for gasoline engines due to their:

Being completely compatible with conventional oils and gasoline engine seals.
Providing both low- and high-temperature performance.
Providing a stable oil in the presence of water and moisture.
Having anti-rust capabilities.

---

This is Mobils explanation on why they use mainly PAO.

 

[Bror Jace]

I have heard perfectly conflicting reports from people using Red Line ... that it leaves the engine very clean ... and others saying the exact opposite.

As for the reports of exceptionally dirty engines, I had guessed people had used exceptionally long drain intervals and/or used the "racing" version of their oils which are low on detergents. But that was just a guess on my part. My runs with Red Line seemed a little dirty ... but the car had a coolant leak so all bets are off.

buster, there was an entire thread here about 6-8 months ago about PAOs vs. esters and that statement from Mobil in particular. I think it's misleading, overall, and went through it line by line.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

Found it:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001190

--- Bror Jace

 

[buster]

Thanks, I read the link. Again, it sounds like it's just a cost issue. For awhile, I didn't really think these additives really would keep Mobil from putting out a $6-7 qt. oil if it were better, but I guess I'm wrong. So with synthetics, you generally get what you pay for.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

For awhile, I didn't really think these additives really would keep Mobil from putting out a $6-7 qt. oil if it were better, but I guess I'm wrong.

---

Well, it didn't stop them back in 76 (or was it 77?) from coming out with an oil that cost over 3-4 times the retail cost of conventional oil.

I'm not all that sure that they DON'T produce something "better". It just probably isn't marketable for the automotive crowd ... or perhaps can have no "economy" to it. That is, although it is a superior oil in most respects - with distinction ..the operating conditions that it would be subjected to would require it to be changed far too often to be viable economically (would that stop us - NO!!! - lol)

Something like an oil that can run @ 100% reliability used in an engine that routinely runs continually for 500 - 1000 hours at a clip ...but would degrade rapidly with the frequent heating and cooling cycles found in autos (just a pulled out of my a$$ possible example).

 

[Steve S]

I would guess that pao oils usually do a good enough job keeping the parts separated that an ester base usually isnt needed? maybe ?

 

[Alex D]

I read in that other post that German language knowledge is sometimes needed on the fourm......well, I am German. Was born and raised in Hamburg, Germany. Went to school there and moved to the US in 1990..became US citizen in 1998...so if you need a translation from German let me know.......German is my mother language.........