How many non-PEA cleaners are really just lacquer thinner?

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Been thinking about this.. the CataCleans, the Duralube "Guaranteed to turn off a P0420!" bottles... these products. They aren't the PEA cleaners.. How much of them is really just overpriced and repackaged lacquer thinner, possibly Xylene and Toluene, not so much Acetone but perhaps a touch of diesel fuel... ? Not sure on the diesel fuel, but.

These products cost about as much as a gallon of pure lacquer thinner from the paint section of Walmart, they also sell pure Acetone however that is regarded as very destructive to fuel systems....

The question being asked is, are these Cataclean, Duralube, CRC Guaranteed To Pass, etc.. products. Are these either mostly lacquer thinner, Xylene, Toluene, perhaps some Acetone, perhaps something else similar, and repackaged into smaller quantity portions and sold for profit?

Again, Cataclean 120007 at 473ml costs more than a gallon of lacquer thinner,.....

 

[Jetronic]

what does the msds say?

I would expect stoddards solvent aka white spirit mostly

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

what does the msds say?

I would expect stoddards solvent aka white spirit mostly

Well, I may be on to something.

There is at least some Xylene and Acetone in there...

Thought occurred to me that these products dressed up as Wonder Cleaners are really just diluted down powerful cleaners with slightly different formulations so that they can be called different products....

For Cataclean. Does not list percentages, but I saw this when I went to go look.

 

[mk378]

The percentage disclosures are in section 3 of a MSDS. Cataclean is mostly xylene and up to 30% acetone. Lacquer thinners contain a large amount of methanol and often substitute ethyl acetate for acetone. Xylene and related molecules are a small part of lacquer thinner.

 

[MolaKule]

Been thinking about this.. the CataCleans, the Duralube "Guaranteed to turn off a P0420!" bottles... these products. They aren't the PEA cleaners.. How much of them is really just overpriced and repackaged lacquer thinner, possibly Xylene and Toluene, not so much Acetone but perhaps a touch of diesel fuel... ? Not sure on the diesel fuel, but.

These products cost about as much as a gallon of pure lacquer thinner from the paint section of Walmart, they also sell pure Acetone however that is regarded as very destructive to fuel systems....

The question being asked is, are these Cataclean, Duralube, CRC Guaranteed To Pass, etc.. products. Are these either mostly lacquer thinner, Xylene, Toluene, perhaps some Acetone, perhaps something else similar, and repackaged into smaller quantity portions and sold for profit?

Again, Cataclean 120007 at 473ml costs more than a gallon of lacquer thinner,.....

It is not lacquer thinner. Don't let your nose be fooled. Here are the components of CataClean that have to be disclosed:

1.Hydrotreated light distillate (petroleum) 64742-47-8 CAS # 5.0 -10.0 % - Low viscosity oil as carrier and to inhibit volatile component's evaporation,

2. Xylene (mixed isomers) 1330-20-7 30.0 -60.0 % - Solvent, also called dimethylbenzene, carbon remover.

3. 1-Propanol 71-23-8 10.0 -30.0 % - Isopropyl alcohol - Solvent, solubilizes water in fuel to be combusted

4. Acetone 67-64-1 10.0 -30.0 % - A ketone, a solvent, decarbonizer and is mixable in water as well.

 

[#18FAN]

The problem with the term Lacquer thinner is there is no I mean 0 set formula you could look up a hundred manufacturers recipes and every one would be different.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

It is not lacquer thinner. Don't let your nose be fooled. Here are the components of CataClean that have to be disclosed:

1.Hydrotreated light distillate (petroleum) 64742-47-8 CAS # 5.0 -10.0 % - Low viscosity oil as carrier and to inhibit volatile component's evaporation,

2. Xylene (mixed isomers) 1330-20-7 30.0 -60.0 % - Solvent, also called dimethylbenzene, carbon remover.

3. 1-Propanol 71-23-8 10.0 -30.0 % - Isopropyl alcohol - Solvent, solubilizes water in fuel to be combusted

4. Acetone 67-64-1 10.0 -30.0 % - A ketone, a solvent, decarbonizer and is mixable in water as well.

Would you advise one to go "making their own CataClean"?

I have inspection coming up on my vehicle on about 6 weeks, there were 2 bottles of CataClean in the store at $26 a bottle.. and I want to pass emissions.

Not the same family of stuff, Lacquer thinner? Lacquer thinner, Xylene, and Acetone are all available in the hardware section... the stuff at Walmart says "Medium Volatility" on it. Paint thinner, Toluene.. Isopropyl alcohol.. CAN one make their own CataClean? Do you believe the CataClean blend is superior?

Has anyone ever asked this question?

 

[MolaKule]

Would you advise one to go "making their own CataClean"?...

No I wouldn't.

 

[Overfill]

Considering your question, this is reasonably similar to Berryman's B12 Chemtool, which is considerably cheaper.

 

[sk_pete]

Would you advise one to go "making their own CataClean"?

snake oil, because it "works" only if its in tank... literally just to pass emision tests..
it has acetone and oxygenated hydrocarbons, to make fuel combust more completely.
nothing except etching chemicals will clean the cat & lambda from oil saps gypsum/phosphate crud layers.

most stupid thing are anti water-fuel additives.
the e10 already has it 10% ! (alcohol)

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

snake oil, because it "works" only if its in tank... literally just to pass emision tests..
it has acetone and oxygenated hydrocarbons, to make fuel combust more completely.
nothing except etching chemicals will clean the cat & lambda from oil saps gypsum/phosphate crud layers.

most stupid thing are anti water-fuel additives.
the e10 already has it 10% ! (alcohol)

Yup, ok so it has occurred to me that my car needs to pass pretty much only the emissions monitor and approximately 6 weeks right at the end of November it's good to the end of November and needs to be inspected sometime in December so that I'm not driving around on an expired sticker. Now this cat is "new" but if you will remember I am the guy that had previously thought that you could do something like poor used motor oil about a quarter at a time through the gas tank in order to dispose of it that way if you didn't want to deal with the people at AutoZone and Advance. Now I've somewhat adjusted to the position that people don't do that for a reason, this is all a learning process and there are certain things that I no longer do.... so I'd rather clean up the cat just enough to get the monitor to set without setting PO420 then to spend the money on an all new one although at this point is that if necessary then that would be done.

Then there's the issue of the oxygen sensor supposedly is reading 4 volts which might be helping to set it too.

I've been debating taking the oxygen sensor off and putting a cleaner in the pipe so that it can run through the cat as well although relevant to this thread is if that would help it or not. So far we have been discussing things that get put in the gas tank and get burned through the fuel system which means through the fuel pump then through the fuel filter then up through the lines then into the injectors then burned off and combustion and then finally expelled into the exhaust on the exhaust stroke. Which then, passes the pre-cat Upstream O2 sensor then goes through the cat then goes past the downstream sensor then possibly out of the resonator which gets to the muffler which then gets emitted into the air.

What I've learned so far is that lacquer thinner is not a part of these products which I always thought that they were . Acetone seems far more prevalent, and we again get into the discussion of Xylene.. so far not seen mentioned is Toluene.

I'll spare the YouTube videos of the cats being tossed and buckets of soap or cleaned with carpet cleaner all I can tell you is that they are on there. They take the upstream O2/H02S out and pour cleaner in it. I've seen it done with brake parts cleaner (on a not fully hot cat, of course.)

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I have heard it said that these products "work" to turn off P0420 by lowering the oxygen content of the exhaust stream, thus "fooling" the 02 sensors and getting the light to turn off (or not come on) when the monitor runs. Not sure if that is nonsense or not but.. for these types of products, and everything mentioned in this thread.. can that be achieved?

As well as if any of them actually contain lacquer thinner..

 

[sk_pete]

lowering the oxygen content

Really? IMHO, most emissions problems are related to low conversion efficiency. Too high hc content.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Really? IMHO, most emissions problems are related to low conversion efficiency. Too high hc content.

Well. I've been watching a bunch of videos to how these products about homebrews of lacquer thinner or this or that or these products that say they turn off P0420 (which my car presently has) supposedly "work." I may have gotten the wording wrong. I try to half-read. It is getting into the territory of crackpot stuff.

Aside from the chemical composition of these cleaners . Logic would tell us that to diagnose a PO420 maybe check the oxygen sensors and I suspect one of mine might be bad, look at a couple of different things and test a couple of different ways... then we get to the YouTubers using various things like CataClean and in various concentrations and they say "My light turned off!" - which I MAY have seen once in my life, and that may not have been an OBD2 system rather OBD1 with a light, where you blink out the code with a paperclip. So again I probably worded that wrong even if what is behind that is.... questionable.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yup, ok so it has occurred to me that my car needs to pass pretty much only the emissions monitor and approximately 6 weeks right at the end of November it's good to the end of November and needs to be inspected sometime in December so that I'm not driving around on an expired sticker. Now this cat is "new" but if you will remember I am the guy that had previously thought that you could do something like poor used motor oil about a quarter at a time through the gas tank in order to dispose of it that way if you didn't want to deal with the people at AutoZone and Advance. Now I've somewhat adjusted to the position that people don't do that for a reason, this is all a learning process and there are certain things that I no longer do.... so I'd rather clean up the cat just enough to get the monitor to set without setting PO420 then to spend the money on an all new one although at this point is that if necessary then that would be done.

Then there's the issue of the oxygen sensor supposedly is reading 4 volts which might be helping to set it too.

I've been debating taking the oxygen sensor off and putting a cleaner in the pipe so that it can run through the cat as well although relevant to this thread is if that would help it or not. So far we have been discussing things that get put in the gas tank and get burned through the fuel system which means through the fuel pump then through the fuel filter then up through the lines then into the injectors then burned off and combustion and then finally expelled into the exhaust on the exhaust stroke. Which then, passes the pre-cat Upstream O2 sensor then goes through the cat then goes past the downstream sensor then possibly out of the resonator which gets to the muffler which then gets emitted into the air.

What I've learned so far is that lacquer thinner is not a part of these products which I always thought that they were . Acetone seems far more prevalent, and we again get into the discussion of Xylene.. so far not seen mentioned is Toluene.

I'll spare the YouTube videos of the cats being tossed and buckets of soap or cleaned with carpet cleaner all I can tell you is that they are on there. They take the upstream O2/H02S out and pour cleaner in it. I've seen it done with brake parts cleaner (on a not fully hot cat, of course.)

How about properly solving the problem rather than trying to wizard your way out of it and burning money unnecessarily on things that won't work? Just a thought.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

This is today's purchase. Tank is half full.

How about properly solving the problem rather than trying to wizard your way out of it and burning money unnecessarily on things that won't work? Just a thought.

Well that sounds GREAT! I've been trying to keep my car-specific questions off of here and on another forum.

I think my Pre-cat 02 sensor voltage is... way too high. If they say to start there.

Now, quick back to the question of if these products were really just lacquer thinner in different bottles and boxes, seems it is not that simple.. is it not advised as a good "first option" before signing up for a big DIFY bill? (Since I legit have emissions in 6 weeks to pass that if given right now, would fail.)

 

[kschachn]

So the answer your question (and the title of this thread) is “none”.

 

[OVERKILL]

So the answer your question (and the title of this thread) is “none”.

This has unfortunately gone "Classic Joe" where sound advise is provided and instead of being followed, we get pictures of how money will be wasted as the vehicle is slowly loved to death.

 

[kschachn]

This has unfortunately gone "Classic Joe" where sound advise is provided and instead of being followed, we get pictures of how money will be wasted as the vehicle is slowly loved to death.

View attachment 121933

When doesn’t that happen along with the usual topic creep?

 

[MolaKule]

Then there's the issue of the oxygen sensor supposedly is reading 4 volts which might be helping to set it too.

I've been debating taking the oxygen sensor off and putting a cleaner in the pipe so that it can run through the cat as well although relevant to this thread is if that would help it or not. So far we have been discussing things that get put in the gas tank and get burned through the fuel system which means through the fuel pump then through the fuel filter then up through the lines then into the injectors then burned off and combustion and then finally expelled into the exhaust on the exhaust stroke. Which then, passes the pre-cat Upstream O2 sensor then goes through the cat then goes past the downstream sensor then possibly out of the resonator which gets to the muffler which then gets emitted into the air.

I think you are setting up for an explosion. If any liquids or vapors are still present when the cat 'lights up', then there is the possibility of "BOOM."

What I've learned so far is that lacquer thinner is not a part of these products which I always thought that they were . Acetone seems far more prevalent, and we again get into the discussion of Xylene.. so far not seen mentioned is Toluene.

I'll spare the YouTube videos of the cats being tossed and buckets of soap or cleaned with carpet cleaner all I can tell you is that they are on there. They take the upstream O2/H02S out and pour cleaner in it. I've seen it done with brake parts cleaner (on a not fully hot cat, of course.)

Yup, please don't post silly videos of silly people doing silly things.

...Now, quick back to the question of if these products were really just lacquer thinner in different bottles and boxes, seems it is not that simple.. is it not advised as a good "first option" before signing up for a big DIFY bill? (Since I legit have emissions in 6 weeks to pass that if given right now, would fail.)...

It has been stated that your assumptions about the chemistry of lacquer thinners are not correct, so why keep bringing it up?