How long till 5W-20 is the norm??

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quote:

Originally posted by tenderloin:
With Ford and Honda already onboard. Chrysler not far behind and Europe in the wings....it won't be long.


Chrysler is using 5w20.Its the ONLY oil they want you to use in the V8 Charger.
 
It took about a decade for 5w-30 to filter down to common usage. It will probably take that long for 5w-20 to get to the same status.

Keep in mind that the DIY crowd is probably still in the heavier is better circle. There's still plenty of 10w-40 and 20w-50 on every Wally World shelf and command a decent amount of real estate. Although I must add that the coming of MC 5w-20 to the market (pre- initial MC exclusion of WM as an outlet) showed tremendous demand according to the stock people at my local WM.
 
Once all car mfrs. goes to it...and we recycle some of the older cars for the new....

Prolly about 10yrs....Then we will go to -5w10 so we can have this debate all over again..LOL
 
Got this off of Mobil's web site. "10W-30 grade is the most popular viscosity amongst the hands-on crowd" Thought some might find interesting.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
In Japan's home and other world markets, Honda "recommends" 5W-20 strictly for economy reasons. For mechanical reliability, Honda still prefers the use of 10W-30 motor oil.

Ray H, you keep on posting this statement without providing one shred of evidence. Shame on you.
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Fumio Ueda, senior staff engineer with Toyota’s Fuel and Lubricant Department, who is also chairman of the Engine Oil Subcommittee of the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association, noted that Toyota has begun recommending 0W-20 oils in Japan.

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000463014.cfm?x=b11,0,w

Honda is the fifth-largest marketer of vehicles in the United States, second-largest in Japan, and the largest manufacturer of engines in the world - more than 10 million per year. Seventy percent of its 2001 model year U.S. fleet, including all Civics and Accords, are being sold with 5w-20 oil in the crankcase along with a recommendation in the owner's manual to use 5w-20 for all oil changes. This will move to 90 percent within a few years.

Honda's reasons for moving to 5w-20 parallels Ford's but without the CAFE incentive. As Honda's Principle Chemist Jeff Jetter puts it, "We're so far ahead of the mpg curve that CAFE was not an issue. We meet EPA requirements easily. But we're a very 'green' company and believe that the fuel economy improvement provided by 5w-20 is important."

Jetter adds, "We've used low-viscosity oil in the Japan market for a number of years and our testing indicates that it's acceptable here for Civics back to 1996 and Accords back to 1998. We're satisfied with backward compatibility of 5w20 in our earlier models. Durability is not an issue, either. If it were, we wouldn't recommend 5w-20."


http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/baseoils/pdf/0201a.pdf
 
quote:

Originally posted by Hirev:
Perhaps some here did not read this. Hondas so called 5w 20 oil is really a 5w 30. So much for Hondas using 5w 20. Link VOA Honda 5w 20

Hah!! Read further into the thread.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000031;p=1#000016

One lab measured the Honda 5w20 as 9.8 cSt @100°C
Another lab, same oil, measured as 7.65 cSt @100°C

What some of you people won't do to ignore science and perpetuate personal beliefs.
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[ May 24, 2006, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by AstroVic:
I've never seen Havoline 5W20 at any of the Walmarts in my area.

Three Walmarts in the Austin area have had ample supplies of it since it's inception. You must be way out in the boonies.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Chris Meutsch:
If it wasn't OK to use, why would companies leave themselves naked for lawsuits by recommending it? Use it as recommended by the car manufacturer/oil maker with confidence.

Your presumption that "world companies" are universally recommending 5W-20 is divorced from the facts. Those that do (companies based in Japan and the U.S.) do so not because they're absolutely convinced of 5W-20's superior protection effectiveness, but because they're absolutely convinced if they don't they'll be bumping up against EPA imposed administrative fines for fleet excess fuel consumption. Keep in mind a salient point: a "potential" lawsuit is only a concern if it actually takes place. If it does, and the manufacturer loses, he can appeal. There's little wiggle room when a gub'mnt imposed administrative sanction is involved.
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In Japan's home and other world markets, Honda "recommends" 5W-20 strictly for economy reasons. For mechanical reliability, Honda still prefers the use of 10W-30 motor oil.

So, "How long till 5W-20 is the norm??" The answer is when you 5W-20 drum-beaters manage to wrest my stash of TropArtic 10W-30 synthetic blend from my cold, dead fingers. All 79 quarts of it...
 
quote:

Originally posted by Louie's gone fishing:
If every commuter in the US would switch to a car that weighed at or below twenty five hundred pounds with a 1.5 litre engine, and the amateur politicans would stop playing games with trains and commuter lanes and start pouring concrete, the use of gasoline would take a big dive. People will not give up their cars, car pool, ride the train and, HOV lanes are a joke. On a 4-lane freeway with an HOV lane, you take 95%+ of the traffic that was in 4 lanes and put it into 3 lanes. Great idea. It does not work, never has, and these politicians keep doing it. We need to get out of our big cars, and they need to pour concrete. Next time I hear one of these tv talking heads present another hydrogen car of the future, I think I'm going to puke. We have discovered the problem, and it is us.


You're one of the few with a brain. Drives you crazy huh?
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quote:

Originally posted by i:

quote:

Originally posted by Louie's gone fishing:
If every commuter in the US would switch to a car that weighed at or below twenty five hundred pounds with a 1.5 litre engine...

You're one of the few with a brain. Drives you crazy huh?
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I remember as a child reading the POGO comic strip, that's where I first heard the phrase "we have discovered the enemy, and he is us", or something like that. PROFOUND!
 
"Honda's Principle Chemist Jeff Jetter puts it, "We're so far ahead of the mpg curve that CAFE was not an issue. We meet EPA requirements easily. But we're a very 'green' company and believe that the fuel economy improvement provided by 5w-20 is important." "

Does this kind of self-professed "greenie" statement make anyone but me suspicious? We all know that the greenies could care less about how long an engine lasts if doing something to the engine helps the environment.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jmacmaster:
Does this kind of self-professed "greenie" statement make anyone but me suspicious? We all know that the greenies could care less about how long an engine lasts if doing something to the engine helps the environment.

And in the very next paragragh he states, "Durability is not an issue, either. If it were, we wouldn't recommend 5w-20."

What is with you thin oil conspiracy nuts? FWIW, I've seen documented engine tests where 5w20 oils produced less wear than a CI-4(Grp II based) 15w40.
 
quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

Originally posted by jmacmaster:
Does this kind of self-professed "greenie" statement make anyone but me suspicious? We all know that the greenies could care less about how long an engine lasts if doing something to the engine helps the environment.

And in the very next paragragh he states, "Durability is not an issue, either. If it were, we wouldn't recommend 5w-20."

What is with you thin oil conspiracy nuts? FWIW, I've seen documented engine tests where 5w20 oils produced less wear than a CI-4(Grp II based) 15w40.


I am not a "conspiracy nut", and frankly, I resent being called one. Discussion and debate of important issues has been a part of my job for 25 years. I've learned that those who resort to insulting labels usually do so because they can't come up with the facts and reasoning needed to win the argument. This is happening a lot in this site's on-going 5W-20 debate.

I simply pointed out a statement by the Honda chemist and commented on it. Unlike many people, I don't take on blind faith everything said by the motor vehicle manufacturers. In view of their long record of deceiving the public, I think that's a reasonable position. I think for myself. I prefer to collect as much info as I can, preferably from neutral sources, and make my own decision. I'm NOT against 5W-20 oil. I just don't think that some of the arguments for some of the applications hold water, and I also think that some of the arguments against its application in certain cases have not been adequately answered.

You can take the chemist's statement that "Durability is not an issue" in more than one way. For what purpose is it not an issue? He may mean that durability does not in fact decrease with a 5W-20 oil. However, he may also mean that for purposes of recommending the 5W-20 oil durability is not an issue because it is not a factor (not an "issue") that Honda considered in making the 5W-20 recommendation.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jmacmaster:
I've learned that those who resort to insulting labels usually do so because they can't come up with the facts and reasoning needed to win the argument. This is happening a lot in this site's on-going 5W-20 debate.

Use the search function, this has been debated dozens of times with plenty of facts.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jmacmaster:


Does this kind of self-professed "greenie" statement make anyone but me suspicious?


Not at all. They're so far ahead of the economy and environmental curve in more ways then anyone else ..they literally don't have a dog in the fight. Not only are they ahead on CAFE ..but their cars last so long that they save energy by being in economical service a very long time (and still ahead of the CAFE curve while doing it).

The only "greed" motivation would be (probably) in terms of PR ..which they don't need any of that either. They're probably the highest rated car there is in terms of customer satisfaction.

So, unless someone digs up secret interoffice memos proving that there indeed is some conspiracy (to do what? Improve their image
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) then this truly appears to them being industry leaders ..even when they don't have anyone breathing down their necks.
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5w-20 will become the norm, when the manufacturers come out with new cars that use 0w-10. Then we will say 0w-10 is not proven, might be too thin, you have to use a more substantial oil like 5w-20, especially in hot weather, where the extra viscosity of a 20 weight will protect better than a 10 weight. That's when.
 
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