How long does it take Rings to seat?

[buster]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=42;t=001431

This kind of relates to the thread above, but is their a normal time period when this process occurs and if so how long is it? I've bee noticing that many of the Honda guys have some consumption issues for the first 5k miles or so then it stops. I was surprised it took that long.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Buster - this is a little off topic but it may be of interest

Recently I replaced rings in a Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine (for testing purposes). DD-MTU say that it will take up to 150k kms to seat the rings.
To avoid any consumption problems we used this engine normally (fully laden at 42000kg) for about 3k kms and then "brutalised" it on the dyno for 30 minutes. We had full turbo boost (full power) and operated with normalised oil and coolant temps (at the high side) during this period. It was on a 15w-40 HDEO mineral oil

The engine has not used any oil (Delvac 1 5w-40)at all (before or since) and has now done about 30-40k kms

I have always treated my new truck engines as if they were well run in already at delivery. The truck is safety checked and placed into service. Drivers are asked to monitor engine temperatures (oil and coolant) and oil pressure. Any variances from our stated parameters are logged as are any fluids added. The engines have full engine protection - high temp/low OP - ramp down/shut down. We find it takes upwards of 60k kms before "normality" arrives via UOAs - the longest was about 250k kms

We normally change the oil to a synthetic HDEO at around 5-10k kms

We have never had any engine suffer excessive oil use and our average oil consumption - logged over many years - is about 1liter per 6000kms

Regards
Doug

[ February 21, 2005, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[Starbreaker666]

Do you find the turbo's aid in rings setting in building extra presure in the cyliders? I was thinking of this the other day as I just bought a '04 Monte Carlo SS with the supercharged 3.8 V6. I was verying engine RPM's all through the band (upto about 4500rpm). I also preformed more then a few 30-60mph bursts or 3/4 throttle. In your opinion does a turbo or supercharger aid in break in speed?

From my town to the nearest real city is 75 miles with small towns about every 10 - 15 minutes the entire way. Lots of long rolling hills all the way as well. When I played around with the cruise control going up hill to try and get it to down shift and kick up the RPM's under load the supercharger would just increase boost but not rpm and the car to shoot up the hill. Do you think that boost helped adding pressure to the rings? Did I just ask the same question twice?

 

[buster]

Thanks for that info Doug. I can tell you have a lot of real world experience with these things.

Bascially for my car, I varied the rpms constantly. Did go hard on it the first 600 miles as it states in the manual. I've been gradually bringing up the rpms to about 4k quite often.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
the combustion pressures are of course part of the engine'e design and well anticipated. Using the max boost will indeed assist in a rapid bed in - all else being equal. We don't normally use a dyno but a heavy diesel truck climbing a mountain range fully loaded for a half hour or so has much the same effect! Drivers of my trucks are also trained in interpreting the pyrometer as a guide to engine load - they are instructed to avoid lugging (letting the engine pull without the ability of accelerating)for more than 30 seconds until after the first 5k or so

As was mentioned by buster, regularly loading the engine without excessive heat gain is the best way to seat rings - and drive it a little like you "dislike" it but not quite "hate" it!
Avoiding excessive revs for the first 2-3k is critical as is gradually increasing them from there on out. We do monitor the revs with my trucks (flight revs are 1900) and encourage progressive shifting. This is monitored via the ECM and Driver's are "counselled" accordingly

Using the correct lubricant (usually the factory fill)initially is most important too. An incorrect lubricant will lead to ring/bore problems that will be difficult to correct

I hope this is of interest

Regards
Doug

[ February 21, 2005, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[Starbreaker666]

Thanks Doug. I feel confident I am on the right path then. I am certainly putting load on my new 3.8 with out "abuse". No WOT at all and only 1/2 to 3/4 throttles from 30 - 60 Mph. RPM never exceed 3500 - 4000 under those conditions... This car rocks with that little Eaton Supercharger.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
buster - yes, the hand book says it all really.
History is littered with people who have babied their new car and paid for it with lots of consequences. This phenomenium actually started with chrome rings, different block metallurgies and new lubricant technologies in the 1950-1960's

The situation has been maintained over the years with better design/manufacturing standards, excellent lubricants and advancing technologies. The best engines are usually those that are "respectfully" treated when new like they are already bedded in!

Constant unloaded use or excessive revs are two of the worst new engine "treatments"

Porsche had a huge problem with water cooled V8 engines in the 1990s (and even now with the V8 Cayenne) where the owners don't "use the stick" early enough!

I still see it quite often with new heavy diesel engines in my client's fleets!

Star - the GM supercharged V6 engine has a good reputation down here too. You sure seem to be "doing the right thing"

Regards
Doug

[ February 22, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[buster]

Doug, thanks for your response. So would you say it's best to follow the owner's manual regarding break-in then? Most car manufacturers state the car doesn't need a sophisticated break-in, but you should take it easy on it for about 500 miles. After that, anything goes....

My question more specifically is how long of a window of time do you have to actually break-in an engine and establish a wear pattern/ring seating?