How long can you keep ammunition?
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Originally Posted By: btanchors
OK, I think the consensus is, it's OK to shoot. Sorry to hijack this thread, but suppose the ammo in question is to be used for daily carry purposes, for self-defense - i.e., not for target shooting. Does that change the answer at all?
OMG yes it sure does. You don't use ammo of this age store in unknown conditions to protect your, or anyone else's life.
OK, I think the consensus is, it's OK to shoot. Sorry to hijack this thread, but suppose the ammo in question is to be used for daily carry purposes, for self-defense - i.e., not for target shooting. Does that change the answer at all?
OMG yes it sure does. You don't use ammo of this age store in unknown conditions to protect your, or anyone else's life.
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
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Originally Posted By: btanchors
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
Frankly, under the circumstances you gave, KNOWING and CONTROLLED it could last for decades, especially if primers are sealed. The concern is mainly the powder inside the case and somewhat the primer. Properly stored both can last for a very, very long time. Exactly how long very, very is; depends upon the powder, the primer, and what the conditions are. Different powders and different primer manufacturers will react differently to relative humidity.
But if it's your SD ammo in a daily carry situation, then it's worth the minimal cost of shooting it and replenishing with new yearly. Long term, I'm being prepared for IT then put it in a good ammo can and if controlled atmospheric conditions, 50 years u'll still be good to go.
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
Frankly, under the circumstances you gave, KNOWING and CONTROLLED it could last for decades, especially if primers are sealed. The concern is mainly the powder inside the case and somewhat the primer. Properly stored both can last for a very, very long time. Exactly how long very, very is; depends upon the powder, the primer, and what the conditions are. Different powders and different primer manufacturers will react differently to relative humidity.
But if it's your SD ammo in a daily carry situation, then it's worth the minimal cost of shooting it and replenishing with new yearly. Long term, I'm being prepared for IT then put it in a good ammo can and if controlled atmospheric conditions, 50 years u'll still be good to go.
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Originally Posted By: FastGame
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
I don't understand how you could state that....sooner or later it will degrade. ANd you don't even know what the powder used is....
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
I don't understand how you could state that....sooner or later it will degrade. ANd you don't even know what the powder used is....
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I would never use this ammo for self defense.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: FastGame
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
I don't understand how you could state that....sooner or later it will degrade. ANd you don't even know what the powder used is....
I can state anything in my life that I want, from many years experience. Like I said I've shot plenty ammo that's real old and it all went bang. Last year I shot 300 rounds of 38-40 made in the 1920's and boom ! I also made my statement based on btanchors scenario, he asked a question and I gave him my answer. I don't live a paranoid what if type of life, you can do as you please.
Now
I want to see someone post a picture of the use by this date that's stamped on your ammo box. If no one can find that use by date try this...set aside some ammo in your house for hmmm 25-30 years then pull it out and see if it goes bang. I'll try to hang around till I'm 100 yrs. old and see how it goes for you.
Originally Posted By: FastGame
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
I don't understand how you could state that....sooner or later it will degrade. ANd you don't even know what the powder used is....
I can state anything in my life that I want, from many years experience. Like I said I've shot plenty ammo that's real old and it all went bang. Last year I shot 300 rounds of 38-40 made in the 1920's and boom ! I also made my statement based on btanchors scenario, he asked a question and I gave him my answer. I don't live a paranoid what if type of life, you can do as you please.
Now
I want to see someone post a picture of the use by this date that's stamped on your ammo box. If no one can find that use by date try this...set aside some ammo in your house for hmmm 25-30 years then pull it out and see if it goes bang. I'll try to hang around till I'm 100 yrs. old and see how it goes for you.
Quote:
Last year I shot 300 rounds of 38-40 made in the 1920's and boom !
Six to eight years ago I bought two boxes of c.1920 US military .45acp, UMC/Remington manufacture. I bought it to go with my O1981 Colt and original M1912 swivel holster. One case was sealed, the other partially filled. I shot some of the partial one up for kicks - worked well and identical performance to other military .45 (chrono'd it and POI). Storage history fully unknown between 1920 and 2006.
This is one datapoint, but it's the same experience most old shooters have. BISCUT, I think gunpowder is less bizarre than you think. The OP can FOR SURE find out exactly what powder is in the load from the 1979 Blazer if he wishes, as there were few magnum powders used commercially at that time. I doubt it is the premium 2400, but there are few other (and known) options. Also, chemically, they are little changed over time - modern ones are more stable but with treatment they won't degrade at a rate to worry about in a lifetime.
Last year I shot 300 rounds of 38-40 made in the 1920's and boom !
Six to eight years ago I bought two boxes of c.1920 US military .45acp, UMC/Remington manufacture. I bought it to go with my O1981 Colt and original M1912 swivel holster. One case was sealed, the other partially filled. I shot some of the partial one up for kicks - worked well and identical performance to other military .45 (chrono'd it and POI). Storage history fully unknown between 1920 and 2006.
This is one datapoint, but it's the same experience most old shooters have. BISCUT, I think gunpowder is less bizarre than you think. The OP can FOR SURE find out exactly what powder is in the load from the 1979 Blazer if he wishes, as there were few magnum powders used commercially at that time. I doubt it is the premium 2400, but there are few other (and known) options. Also, chemically, they are little changed over time - modern ones are more stable but with treatment they won't degrade at a rate to worry about in a lifetime.
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Originally Posted By: btanchors
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
I think in this case, if it was me I'd go buy some new defensive ammo every 5 years (which will probably be more effective anyway since technology always improves), then go target shoot with the old defensive ammo. What's that, like $20~$25 buck over 5 years for 20 new defensive rounds ... no big deal to insure the ammo works well if you need it to.
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
I think in this case, if it was me I'd go buy some new defensive ammo every 5 years (which will probably be more effective anyway since technology always improves), then go target shoot with the old defensive ammo. What's that, like $20~$25 buck over 5 years for 20 new defensive rounds ... no big deal to insure the ammo works well if you need it to.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: btanchors
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
I think in this case, if it was me I'd go buy some new defensive ammo every 5 years (which will probably be more effective anyway since technology always improves), then go target shoot with the old defensive ammo. What's that, like $20~$25 buck over 5 years for 20 new defensive rounds ... no big deal to insure the ammo works well if you need it to.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Assuming you go shooting at a range at least once a year (and you should!), then just buy a new box of defensive ammo at that time and use your year-old stuff at the range.
People on this forum often say that synthetic oil is "cheap insurance" - that goes doubly so for ammo and guns that could wind up saving your life.
Originally Posted By: btanchors
Let me re-phrase this a bit. Assume we're talking about defense ammo that I originally purchased. In other words, I have owned the ammo since new, and I KNOW it has been stored properly for the duration, sitting in carefully controlled storage (NOT loaded in a magazine or firearm). At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes? I'm NOT talking about ammo that you are carrying with you daily, just that which is properly stored.
I think in this case, if it was me I'd go buy some new defensive ammo every 5 years (which will probably be more effective anyway since technology always improves), then go target shoot with the old defensive ammo. What's that, like $20~$25 buck over 5 years for 20 new defensive rounds ... no big deal to insure the ammo works well if you need it to.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Assuming you go shooting at a range at least once a year (and you should!), then just buy a new box of defensive ammo at that time and use your year-old stuff at the range.
People on this forum often say that synthetic oil is "cheap insurance" - that goes doubly so for ammo and guns that could wind up saving your life.
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I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
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Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
Appears from the above that you would trust the ammo in question indefinitely. Was it meant to mean something different?
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
Appears from the above that you would trust the ammo in question indefinitely. Was it meant to mean something different?
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
Appears from the above that you would trust the ammo in question indefinitely. Was it meant to mean something different?
IMO, he meant that he would have used it (at the range) before the ammo got to the point of being old.
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm familiar with lots of different gunpowders as I've been loading for 14 rifle calibers covering very slow burning to fast burning powders, ball, extruded, etc... Powder is affected by many variables, temperature is a huge one, even for the more advanced powders with modern coatings on the granuals.
You wear a seatbelt every time you get into your car for the safety factor of "possibility" of an accident in the hopes it could save you; but same dude would use ammo from 1920's in a SD "possibility."
You sure can say what you want, but that logic sure seems flawed to me. So be it.
I never once said that someone should use or I would use old 1920's ammo in SD.
"At what point would you no longer trust it for defense purposes?"
I would not get to that point, the ammo is good and I would use it.
Appears from the above that you would trust the ammo in question indefinitely. Was it meant to mean something different?
IMO, he meant that he would have used it (at the range) before the ammo got to the point of being old.
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