How does moisture and blow by gasses effect oil?

[buster]

When I was talking to Darren Wallace of Amsoil about Redline, he said they see Redline samples quite often at OAI. Which by the way, I think is a huge asset to Amsoil.

The way he talked about Redline was that it's very good for track racing and hard driving conditions. He said though that when it's subjected to moisture via condensation or when blow by gasses occur, RL's TBN depletes rapidly. His basic arguement was that it's not great for extended use, but more of a performance oriented oil.

My questions are is moisture a culprit in some of the UOA's we see? And why would RL react differently to blow by gasses then any other oil? What chemical process is taking place here?

One a side note, he said Redline uses Moly, an extrmeme pressure additive that is found in gear lubes etc. This bothers me. Does Amsoil not know of the soluable Moly? Whats with that? Lubrizol must have them brain washed. I have to note though that RL does use an awefull lot of Moly. Most formulators don't go above 200ppm. It's been beat to death but this could be a problem is some cases possibly.

[ May 26, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

You are assuming that guy is correct and that he has interpreted all causal factors correctly.

 

[buster]

quote:

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You are assuming that guy is correct

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I'm not assuming anything. I'm asking a question. The fact that Amsoil still refers to Moly as the solid, is disturbing IMO. Clear sign of Lubrizol influence, based on LZ's dislike of it.

More importantly though is why he said RL doesnt react well to moisture/blow by gasses.

[ May 26, 2004, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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One a side note, he said Redline uses Moly, an extrmeme pressure additive that is found in gear lubes etc. This bothers me. Does Amsoil not know of the soluable Moly? Whats with that? Lubrizol must have them brain washed. I have to note though that RL does use an awefull lot of Moly.

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Soluble Moly or MoDTC is a friction modifier while powdered moly disulfide is used in gear lubes as an Extreme Pressure agent.

I thought we had this conversation earlier.


Regading the so-called blowby. Any engine with severe blowby is going to have tbn issues.

Now, if the tbn for Redline (or any other oil for that matter) is so bad, we should be seeing corrosion issues with wear increasing when the tbn goes down. I don't know that we have seen this happening.

 

[buster]

Thanks MK. I'm aware of the soluable Moly, but Amsoil isn't. When I spoke with Darren Wallace, their lead tech guru, he said Moly is a EP, solid additive that is found in gear lubes etc. I find it hard to believe this guy isn't aware of the soluable form of Moly that is found in 90% of todays oils.

Regarding TBN, which was the main point of the post, I was trying to get at why he thought RL reacts more negatively then other oils bc of it's POE basestock. Probably defending the cheaper PAOs but I thought it was odd.

[ May 27, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Motorbike]

Could Redline react adversly to gasoline fuels with ethanol ....lots of it at the gas pumps these days .

 

[Pablo]

I can agree with a car that has blow by, etc is hard on the oil. This fairly classical stuff. The thing with Redline sounds a bit cartoonish....but I'm not sure HOW they hold their base, and I haven't seen THAT many long OCI's and TBN on Redline. 3MP's study will be interesting.

I have ZERO explanation why Amsoil tows that stupid moly solids crap. They don't answer my questions on it. In fact they don't answer any of my questions anymore (I think they did listen to my comment on the MB spec, but not the HT/HS of 3.4 thing). I got the feeling they think I'm a pest (kinda like you Buster

)

Lastly - I can understand CTC getting Redline samples, but why would OAI get them, and how close is Darren to that? Maybe this was from the past? So why wouldn't Amsoil copy the good things about Redline??

 

[SteveS]

I seem to remember something which related to water in engine oil, but I can't remember if this was PCMO or HDEO.

Japanese manufacturers don't like engine oils made from magnesium based detergents.

Apparently they found that magnesium based detergents hydrolise with water and this causes problems.

Now, as the detergent is the major contributor to an oil's TBN, if the detergent was to hydrolise then maybe TBN could drop and maybe the hydrolised detergent is acidic?

Anybody else heard more about this?

 

[buster]

With Amsoil, I don't care if they use Moly or not. I don't think it's necessary if other things are being used, which in their case there is. But I wish they would acknowledge that the Moly others are using is NOT the same Moly found in gear lubes etc.