How do *other* synthetics hold up (Castrol, Pennzoil, et cetera)?

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by troy_heagy: On this board it appears everyone agrees that Amsoil, Mobil 1, and Redline are the best synthetic oil. But, what's your opinion(s) on the "other" synthetics?
Honestly, we haven't seen too many UOAs on the other synthetics, but the ones that we have seen don't look super impressive either.
 
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Patman do you think that if the other companys screw the consumers by calling groupIII syn they do the same with the additive package?
 

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by Steve S: Patman do you think that if the other companys screw the consumers by calling groupIII syn they do the same with the additive package?
It's certainly possible. We know it's possible to make a great oil with a petroleum base stock but a great additive package (such as Schaeffer's mineral oil) but most oil companies choose not to do so. From what we've seen on most group 3 synthetics out there, they cannot go the distance like the better oils, their TBN drops too fast, indicating a weaker/less quality add pack.
 
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Then all BMW owners are screwed because BMW's 5-30 Synth. which is only SJ, but ACEA A3 rated is made by Castrol N.A. and most likely a Group III scheduled to go 10k mi...(16k km). And I'm currently using Syntec 5-50 because the car runs better and consumes WAY less than M-1 15-50...also 10k mi. oil changes. HTHS is higher than M1's 0-40, but comparable to the 15-50...and the engine doesn't sound like trash cans either. Likewise, Quaker State's 10-30 Synthetic (OTC) IS the ONLY ACEA A3 rated 10-30 that I've personally seen on the shelves (before Syntec 0-30 - but this is a PAO). So that's gotta tell you something too...
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: Then all BMW owners are screwed because BMW's 5-30 Synth. which is only SJ, but ACEA A3 rated is made by Castrol N.A. and most likely a Group III scheduled to go 10k mi...(16k km).
I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. BMW's 5w30 is probably re-bottled Castrol TXT, and is produced in Europe. It's a Group III/Group V blend.
 
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Well, I'll say if it is it doesn't say anything about being made in Germany or whatever. Says "made exclusively by Castrol N.A. (NJ) for BMW" right on the bottle. And at $3.xx/qt. it's hard not believe it's a group III. The 10-60 RS on the other hand is sold in it's original Euro. bottles with "made in E.U." labels for $10/qt. We've had this discussion before...
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: Well, I'll say if it is it doesn't say anything about being made in Germany or whatever. Says "made exclusively by Castrol N.A. (NJ) for BMW" right on the bottle.
Well, if it says that on the bottle, I'm obviously wrong.
 
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Having my first run with Motul 6100 5W40 and highly impressed. Hasn't used a drop so far (couldn't say that with M1 0W40 TS) and turbo seems to spool very quickly, in fact catching me off guard a few times. Still distributor here tells me 6100 is replaced by better 8100 X-cess 5W40. Motul pioneered many oil technologies (1971 1st 100% syn ester oil, 1966 first semi-syn, and 93 World Champ oil in 500cc Grand Prix, Superbike, 125 & 250cc Motorcross). Can't be too shabby IMO.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: Having my first run with Motul 6100 5W40 and highly impressed. Hasn't used a drop so far (couldn't say that with M1 0W40 TS) and turbo seems to spool very quickly, in fact catching me off guard a few times. Still distributor here tells me 6100 is replaced by better 8100 X-cess 5W40. Motul pioneered many oil technologies (1971 1st 100% syn ester oil, 1966 first semi-syn, and 93 World Champ oil in 500cc Grand Prix, Superbike, 125 & 250cc Motorcross). Can't be too shabby IMO.
I switched from Mobil 1 to Synpower 5w-40 and noticed better turbo spooling too. Plus, the car runs quieter. I don't know if switching from a PAO to a Group III is a wise choice or not, but the car sure runs smoother and it was consuming that Mobil 1 pretty rapidly. I do 5k intervals so TBN retention is not a big deal to me.
 
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If the above gentleman that posts that his car runs better and consumes less oil with Valvoline Synpower 5-40 than with M-1 0-40, how does that not relate to performance? We've all seen other oils perform as well if not better than M-1 (shown by UOA or otherwise)....PAO or otherwise....eg. Schaeffers. I know I have. What I'm trying to say is just because it's the only OTC PAO doesn't make it the best oil going as some claim...there are other alternatives.
 
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quote:
That goes with what I've discoved too: That M-1 isn't all that it's cracked up to be
Dr. T, what UOA's have you been reading? If anything, Mobil 1 has proven to be one of the best oils, period. Go back through every UOA and you will see numbers that are great, and numbers that are not, just like any other oil. Amsoil and Redline, regardless of there specs. on paper have not shown to be better then M1. M1 is very consistant. It all depends what engine and driving style too. Mobil is limited in what they can make for $5, but for that amount, only Schaeffer's is as good. If any one oil is not cracked up to what it is suposed to be it HAS TO BE Amsoil! There are oils though that are better in certain engines for certain cars so in essence, yes, there are other great alternatives. [ May 22, 2003, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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All I'm saying is UOA's don't always show the whole picture. That's all. I've used M-1 and just like others have said...it's good, but not great. Maybe it's a viscosity thing or addative package...
 
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quote:
it's good, but not great
Thats fine, but are you saying it's not great in your case or you think generally it's not a great oil? I'm not partial to any one brand, but I see too many people ripping M1 when I think from what the UOA's have told us, it has proven to be a great oil.
 
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My 3.8L didnt like the thin 10W-30 of Mobil 1. Perhaps its the thickness of the valvoline which it likes more than the formulation, which is one of the reasons I'd like to try the 0W-40.
 
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Good question. I'll say both. Primarily with my application. Secondly, if you take a look at OTC Q.S. 10-30 for eg, it is A3 rated...something M-1 10-30 can't claim...(if we're going by the numbers that is...)
 
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Motul Synergie 6100 5W40 is PAO. I confirmed with Motul in the tech forum. Now it's 'Seat of pants' only but appears to be best oil I've used in my Mazda turbo test vehicle (and there have been many). As an aside though BP Visco 5000 PAO 5W40 is so good on our Timken it's worth trying IMO.
 
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I'm certainly not claiming that Synpower is better than Mobil 1; I wouldn't know that until I ran both in my car and got them analyzed. I have a Synpower sample coming in any day now so that's a start. I do know that the car runs noticeably quieter with Synpower and the turbo response is better. It's anecdotal evidence but I get some psychological comfort from listening to a smoother engine. Take that for what it's worth.
 
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quote:
Good question. I'll say both. Primarily with my application. Secondly, if you take a look at OTC Q.S. 10-30 for eg, it is A3 rated...something M-1 10-30 can't claim...(if we're going by the numbers that is...)
Sorry but Quaker state doesn't compare to M1.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by buster:
quote:
Good question. I'll say both. Primarily with my application. Secondly, if you take a look at OTC Q.S. 10-30 for eg, it is A3 rated...something M-1 10-30 can't claim...(if we're going by the numbers that is...)
Sorry but Quaker state doesn't compare to M1.

Amen to that. People talk about the Xw30 grades of Mobil 1 not being A3 as if this is some sort of defect in the oil. Folks, Mobil didn't DESIGN these oils to be A3 oils. They are A5 oils, meant to meet the low friction and fuel efficiency requirements of that spec. From a performance standpoint, the ONLY difference between A3 and A5 is the HT/HS numbers. Believe me, if Mobil wanted to put out a 0w30 A3 rated Mobil 1, they could do it in a heart beat. (Some would say they already have, it's just labeled 0w40. hehe)
 
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