How about a thick vs. thin sticky?

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39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
Okay ...we've gone up the thin vs. thick rhetorical highway many times. Nothing really gets settled. It's all a matter of faith it seems. Wouldn't it save a whole lot of bandwidth if every time someone brought up the topic ..you could simply refer them to a "thick vs. thin debate" sticky? It wouldn't be an open forum in my mind's eye. It would be a collection of presentations that would be assigned "fact" or "opinion" designation. Someone like Molacule or Terry would play school teacher and "grade" the presentations with the proper asignation. Naturally conclusions extracted from SAE papers and the like would carry more weight then anecdotal evidence. This would sorta eliminate the "I once saw BigFoot using 15w-40 in the PNW. Why can't I?" type stuff. ...or do we just get the urge to spar every once and a while and thick vs. thin provides a good arena to work out the kinks??? [Big Grin]
 
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6,431
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New Braunfels
AYE! It has become as emotonal and partisan as politics. People are not interpreting the available facts in an unbiased way and I am not exempt from the fray. It is interfering and hijacking too many threads.
 
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7,409
Location
Austin, TX
Sufficient to fill a champagne glass is thick enough for me. And it's one those applications where I prefer a quality conventional instead of a cheap synthetic.
 
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4,378
Location
Camas, WA
In moderated news groups a FAQ is common, and for some subjects it would serve this group well. As far as thick vs thin even people working on developing thinner oils acknowledge that thicker produces less wear. One of the authors below has produced a chart that has ben bandied about by 5W20ers as 'proving thin oil produces less wear', showing less top ring wear, but when you look at the rest of his work he states that even though thinner oils can produce less top ring wear, in general thicker oils produce less wear in piston assemblies. This is supported by other studies, and by the general use of heavier oils where fuel economy or maximum power output isn't the primary concern. This never gets acknowledged though, in fact the author ends up getting discredited by those who previously used him as a reference. Valve trains tend to favor thicker oils, as do gears, and in journal bearings thinner oils require more conditions to be met. What's interesting about thick vs thin in this forum is that stating that using a lighter oil as recommended by the car maker can almost always be done with no concern about problems, at least in new cars, and that for most it will serve fine for as long as they own the car, isn't enough. 5W20wers need to somehow prove that it is the promised oil, that it always produces the least wear and maximum engine life. Using the oil for what the makers say it can be used for isn't good enough. Bizarre. http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/friction.pdf The Piston Ring Contact (cont.) - Highest loads occur close to dead centre positions, and although speeds are low, "dwell times" are high. (chart shows higher wear for lower viscosity). Valve Train Lubrication - Frequently the most difficult engine component to lubricate: thin oil films, high loads. http://www.iantaylor.org.uk/papers/piston2005.pdf Oil film thickness measurements - in general higher viscosity oils give thicker films. However, top ring film thickness could be thicker for lower viscosity oils. http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/GLTRS/browse.pl?2005/TM-2005-213956.html ABSTRACT: The influence of lubricant viscosity and additives on the average wear rate of spur gear pairs was investigated experimentally.....In general, the wear rate was found to be inversely proportional to the viscosity of the lubricant and to the lambda ratio (also sometimes called the specific film thickness)....
 
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1,151
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Clovis, CA
oli said: "Woman should be thin. Beer should not be thin. Oil should be somewhere in the middle." bruce381 said: "cept on the top" GoldenRod says: I don't think about women. . . . just oil and beer. [Big Grin]
 

Gary Allan

Thread starter
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39,805
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Pottstown, PA
1sttruck ..save your ammo for the sticky ..if it in fact arrives. This is a support thread. [Smile] (visions of Monty Python - this is abuse. arguments are two doors down on the left)
 
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43,667
Location
'Stralia
When we had Dr Haas' thread on 20s, and mine on 50s, I thought a sticky (well a few of them) would be good. sub-20 20 30 40 50 50plus post only your experiences, and no commentary on other's experiences...leave that to general threads.
 
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7,409
Location
Austin, TX
Kind of reminds me of the 'The Bedford Incident' (1965) with Richard Widmark and Sidney Poitier. [After arming an anti-submarine rocket.] Capt. Eric Finlander: If he fires one, I'll fire one. Ensign Ralston: [Launching the rocket.] Fire one! [Big Grin]
 
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4,378
Location
Camas, WA
"1sttruck ..save your ammo for the sticky ..if it in fact arrives. This is a support thread." Sheriff Bart smart.... Mongo only pawn in game of life. :^)
 
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