Just wondering what determines which to use. I have heard several reasons from different people i've asked but no one ever says the same thing. I gotta figure the has to be some reasoning behind it even if it's just that blend is simply cheaper oil. Or is there a logical reason to choose one or the other? I see a lot of blends that aren't any less expensive, to the $ reaon seems not to work.
how 2 determine whether 2 use Full Synthetic or blend?
- Thread starter daz
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I go by price
It's a harder decision now than used to be. NO SYNTHETIC WAR PLEASE, but many if not most of the synthetics now are grp III oils, which I have no problem with, but then what is a synthetic blend ? It gets complicated when looking at it this way.
However I either go synthetic or conventional, I don't see much in the way of any price savings by going semi.. and you loose the advantage of extending your oil drains somewhat when using semi.. I'm guessing for what you get that semi synthetic when compared to OCI attained semi is the most expensive oil to purchase.
I can never find this article, but years back in a progressive farmer magazine when synthetics first hit, and they were then real synthetics grp IV/V etc they done an extensive study on conventional, semi, and synthetic, and semi won out.. They performed some type of microscopic view ( I can't remember what type) and showed that the synthetic oil molecules were all of the same size, conventional was all over the place, they found that the semi was the perfect mix that filled the microscopic metal surface (substrate) and also provided the best wear. However in todays oils I think this information is outdated, and worthless.. I have tried, and tried to find this document, yet I can find nothing.. However it was a large well documented article, many pictures of engine internals etc.. big fancy well laid out write up
However I either go synthetic or conventional, I don't see much in the way of any price savings by going semi.. and you loose the advantage of extending your oil drains somewhat when using semi.. I'm guessing for what you get that semi synthetic when compared to OCI attained semi is the most expensive oil to purchase.
I can never find this article, but years back in a progressive farmer magazine when synthetics first hit, and they were then real synthetics grp IV/V etc they done an extensive study on conventional, semi, and synthetic, and semi won out.. They performed some type of microscopic view ( I can't remember what type) and showed that the synthetic oil molecules were all of the same size, conventional was all over the place, they found that the semi was the perfect mix that filled the microscopic metal surface (substrate) and also provided the best wear. However in todays oils I think this information is outdated, and worthless.. I have tried, and tried to find this document, yet I can find nothing.. However it was a large well documented article, many pictures of engine internals etc.. big fancy well laid out write up
I agree with rclint - for most normal applications (non turbo, for instance) the additive package may well be more important than the base oil. Here is the guideline I have always used: a blend is mostly a marketing term - and the actual synthetic percentage may only be a few percent. with that in mind, I consider "blends" to be dino - and select Amsoil or Mobil 1 Extended Performance for my truck (it tows 6000 lbs uphill in July); almost any synthetic for my cars; dino for cars I dont intend to keep forever. I have never purchased blends - although I would consider Motorcraft blend but would change it at conventional intervals.
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IMHO you can't beat the price of WHATEVER BRAND NAME IS ON SALE AT YOUR FAVORITE STORE. The "synthetics" in NA are blends of conventional oils anyway for the most part. They are just a much higher quality, (except some like AMSOIL, Redline, RLI [true syns].)some base stocks are better solubilizing additives, some are better at "sticking" to the metal parts (polarity). Some of the best oils are either a name brand dino changed at a 4-6k interval depending on driving habits or a name brand "syn" and drain at 6-10k (all are generalities and should be based on used oil analysis and regular maintenance). As said before the term blend is a marketing ploy, MC is the only one I would consider. This may be the longest run-on sentence in history.
What are you riding, it really can make a difference in what I'd recommend
Application based, including temperature range operating in, car, boat, truck, bike. There are variables to consider. You probably wouldn't wear torn blue jeans to a wedding (well, if you are the groom) and you probably wouldn't want dollar store conventional in your twin turbo Lingenfelder built Vette. And that may not be the best example, but I'm only halfway through my first cuppa joe.
daz,
oh that's an EASY one.
pick a hdeo (any) or vr1 20w50.
i see you are in socal. it dont get cold. so ride on!
oh that's an EASY one.
pick a hdeo (any) or vr1 20w50.
i see you are in socal. it dont get cold. so ride on!
HDEO= heavy duty engine oil, look for shell rotella, delo, mystic, and others. That's the problem with oil... anomalies pop up everyone as mentioned in the post abiove MC semi-synthetic is one of the best oils money wise, and oil wise... with UOA to back it up, and cheap 5 quart containers available at walmart !!
I go by preference. Have a couple bikes and when I ride, it's rare that the ride is an hour or less. Most are a couple hours to a full day. Longest ride was 16-1/2 hours run time in a day 2-up (wife on the back). So since I don't have much short term riding, I went with synthetic. I use Rotella 5w-40 in one bike and Amsoil 20w-50 in the other bike. I switched to synthetic a few years ago.
If I rode mostly local short runs, then I probably would have stayed with the dino I used to use.
One thing I do notice is both of these bikes run cooler and the upper is more quiet. These bikes I have seem to like it.
Unexpected was the Amsoil 20w-50 switch in the older Harley. I was used to adding a little oil 1-2 times a month to maintain a 3/4 level in the oil tank, not much but I like to maintain a level. Since I switched it to Amsoil, I only add a very small amount about twice a year. Oil consumption dramatically went down. I only have 25k on the bike.
On the down side, It really takes some riding to get the temp up on it, and I can hardly get the temp to 180. Now the other day when it was about 40 out, I don't think the oil temp got over 150, or it may have been 160. I didn't have my glasses on at the time. Also, I'm on my 3rd oil temp gauge, and each has reacted the same. I don't like the temp that cold, but the oil is the best I have ran in it during summer.
In the summer when it's near triple digits, I still have to run it a bit and harder to reach 180. Most of my riding is 2-up. On the hot days and some harder riding, I have at times reached 200F (12 o-clock on the gauge), but not often. It just doesn't seem right - but I can sit idle at long red lights and not worry about it for an air cooled bike (Harley).
Runs cooler, quieter, reduced oil consumption, oil last longer - I guess the positives outweigh the negatives.
On some of my other previous bikes, some were touchy depending on which oils I used. Wet clutch bikes usually need a non energy conservative oils as the clutch could start slipping. The bikes with one hole - oil shared; engine, transmission, clutch, I think is asking allot from an oil. So I like the shear factor associated with the synthetics. I've had the clutch friction zone smooth out.
So I been full synthetic all around a few years and I like it.
Another note - I have not seen any confirmation yet, but some Buell boys think there is a higher failure stator rate which may have some association with the use of M1. Something about the add pack, crankcase condensation, not getting it burned off, results in the add pack formulation/ppm's creating a light acid not favorable with the stator coat. I have never had a stator failure and I have never used M1 in any of my bikes ever, with the exception of using M1 synthetic gear oil in a shaft driven final drive unit.
Now lets talk spark plugs - Iridium plugs - okay done.......
If I rode mostly local short runs, then I probably would have stayed with the dino I used to use.
One thing I do notice is both of these bikes run cooler and the upper is more quiet. These bikes I have seem to like it.
Unexpected was the Amsoil 20w-50 switch in the older Harley. I was used to adding a little oil 1-2 times a month to maintain a 3/4 level in the oil tank, not much but I like to maintain a level. Since I switched it to Amsoil, I only add a very small amount about twice a year. Oil consumption dramatically went down. I only have 25k on the bike.
On the down side, It really takes some riding to get the temp up on it, and I can hardly get the temp to 180. Now the other day when it was about 40 out, I don't think the oil temp got over 150, or it may have been 160. I didn't have my glasses on at the time. Also, I'm on my 3rd oil temp gauge, and each has reacted the same. I don't like the temp that cold, but the oil is the best I have ran in it during summer.
In the summer when it's near triple digits, I still have to run it a bit and harder to reach 180. Most of my riding is 2-up. On the hot days and some harder riding, I have at times reached 200F (12 o-clock on the gauge), but not often. It just doesn't seem right - but I can sit idle at long red lights and not worry about it for an air cooled bike (Harley).
Runs cooler, quieter, reduced oil consumption, oil last longer - I guess the positives outweigh the negatives.
On some of my other previous bikes, some were touchy depending on which oils I used. Wet clutch bikes usually need a non energy conservative oils as the clutch could start slipping. The bikes with one hole - oil shared; engine, transmission, clutch, I think is asking allot from an oil. So I like the shear factor associated with the synthetics. I've had the clutch friction zone smooth out.
So I been full synthetic all around a few years and I like it.
Another note - I have not seen any confirmation yet, but some Buell boys think there is a higher failure stator rate which may have some association with the use of M1. Something about the add pack, crankcase condensation, not getting it burned off, results in the add pack formulation/ppm's creating a light acid not favorable with the stator coat. I have never had a stator failure and I have never used M1 in any of my bikes ever, with the exception of using M1 synthetic gear oil in a shaft driven final drive unit.
Now lets talk spark plugs - Iridium plugs - okay done.......
I love iridium plugs. Unfortunately they don't make them in this bike's heat range. But i used them in my last triumph (carburated)and they really smoothed it out and made the idle far less erratic and even gave it a little better mid range throttle response. Add very long life and rarely needing to be gapped and they are a no brainer. Just wish they made em in my current bikes range.
Originally Posted By: daz
I love iridium plugs. Unfortunately they don't make them in this bike's heat range. But i used them in my last triumph (carburated)and they really smoothed it out and made the idle far less erratic and even gave it a little better mid range throttle response. Add very long life and rarely needing to be gapped and they are a no brainer. Just wish they made em in my current bikes range.
You could if available, try a heat range colder or hotter depending on how your plugs have normally been running. Have you tried other makes? NGK, ND etc.
I have also done a mix. One bike I had, the front cylinder always burned good while the rear cylinder always looked lean and hot, so I ran a cooler plug for that one.
Some like to run a cooler plug in their Harley for extended runs. Its a try and check kind of thing.
Many bikes just start easier with Iridium, run smoother for that first cold morning start, etc. They do stay cleaner longer. Hard for carbon to stick to Iridium.
Be very careful gaping Iridium plugs. They are very brittle on the electrode and easy to break. They should come pre-gap for an application, but if you must, be careful.
I have had nothing but positive results with Iridium plugs and they last, so I stick with them. Maybe I'm getting lazy because I don't pull them to check as often as I used too. I usually feed them with Magnum braided wires too, color to match the bike in some cases.
I love iridium plugs. Unfortunately they don't make them in this bike's heat range. But i used them in my last triumph (carburated)and they really smoothed it out and made the idle far less erratic and even gave it a little better mid range throttle response. Add very long life and rarely needing to be gapped and they are a no brainer. Just wish they made em in my current bikes range.
You could if available, try a heat range colder or hotter depending on how your plugs have normally been running. Have you tried other makes? NGK, ND etc.
I have also done a mix. One bike I had, the front cylinder always burned good while the rear cylinder always looked lean and hot, so I ran a cooler plug for that one.
Some like to run a cooler plug in their Harley for extended runs. Its a try and check kind of thing.
Many bikes just start easier with Iridium, run smoother for that first cold morning start, etc. They do stay cleaner longer. Hard for carbon to stick to Iridium.
Be very careful gaping Iridium plugs. They are very brittle on the electrode and easy to break. They should come pre-gap for an application, but if you must, be careful.
I have had nothing but positive results with Iridium plugs and they last, so I stick with them. Maybe I'm getting lazy because I don't pull them to check as often as I used too. I usually feed them with Magnum braided wires too, color to match the bike in some cases.
well, you pretty much never really have to gap them i'd imagine. I never really found out because i never wore a pair to that point ! Anyways, bike runs so good right now i have no reason to bother. If they ever do make them in my heat range i'll certainly use them eventually, but i'm not really thinking about it with this bike.....it just runs so good as is.
Rotella T 15w40.
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