The waste gate is what controls the turbo, look into how to adjust it. I did this on my 98 and it responses very fast, just careful you can blow the engine.
Check Sweedspeed and other similar forums.
Check Sweedspeed and other similar forums.
Hot take: Turbo + manual = slushbox
- Thread starter brages
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Having build a good number of turbocharged road race cars, it's clear that the setup needs to be designed, implemented and tuned correctly.
Some thoughts: turbo cars, even with very small engines, can have no perceptible lag. To the point where modulating power in long sweeping corners feels very much like a normally aspirated engine.
Unfortunately, manufacturers often comprise when designing turbocharged engines. Including the choice of turbochargers.
As mentioned above, proper tuning is extremely important. As both ignition timing and air fuel ratio can affect exhaust energy. I tend to prefer as much timing as possible during spool up (counter intuitive) , pulling timing only as boost builds, and a significantly rich of stoic mixtire.
Intake restrictions, including air filters, AND intercoolers, along with ANY exhaust restrictions are huge contributors to lag.
Here is a previous 33psi, no lag setup. With plenty of attention paid to intake system restriction and volume.
![[Linked Image]](http://cujet.com/assets/images/miata_resize.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Some thoughts: turbo cars, even with very small engines, can have no perceptible lag. To the point where modulating power in long sweeping corners feels very much like a normally aspirated engine.
Unfortunately, manufacturers often comprise when designing turbocharged engines. Including the choice of turbochargers.
As mentioned above, proper tuning is extremely important. As both ignition timing and air fuel ratio can affect exhaust energy. I tend to prefer as much timing as possible during spool up (counter intuitive) , pulling timing only as boost builds, and a significantly rich of stoic mixtire.
Intake restrictions, including air filters, AND intercoolers, along with ANY exhaust restrictions are huge contributors to lag.
Here is a previous 33psi, no lag setup. With plenty of attention paid to intake system restriction and volume.
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Originally Posted by brages
So...
I'm a fan of manual transmissions; I find they are more enjoyable to drive and I believe that they are more durable and economical than autos. I have heard the today's new automatics are great, but I drive older (cheaper) cars, so it will be a few years before I can agree or disagree. At least by then, we will have a good picture of the durability of today's wonder-automatics.
Anyway, one of the reasons I like manuals is the instant response. I can anticipate a corner or opening in traffic and be shifted into the right gear. Then, when it's time to GO, just mash down the gas pedal and the car goes, no torque converter slipping, no waiting for a kickdown in gear.
Recently, I bought my first turbo car, a Volvo S40 T5 with a 6 speed manual. Now, this car has a fairly large displacement engine (2.5 5-cyl) for its size and has a fairly small, low-pressure turbo. So you would think it would spool up quickly, and the lag at low RPM's wouldn't be too bad. And it's not a peaky power delivery; it's a flat torque curve that comes on at low rpms, 1500 to 2k.
BUT, what I'm coming to realize is that the turbo lag is giving me a similar sensation to a "slushbox" automatic. Instead of hitting the gas and getting an instant response, I press the accelerator pedal, wait just a bit for the boost to build and then accelerate. And, yeah, it's kind of a fun sensation to feel the boost hit, but it's also annoying... instead of power output being just a function of rpm and throttle, now it's a function of rpm, throttle, and time.
So I'm wondering if anybody else has a similar feeling. Does turbo lag take away from the instant throttle response that makes manuals fun to drive? Does it just seem like turbos work better with automatics anyway, because the time to kick down gives time for boost to build? It seems like more small cars are going the turbo route these days. And everybody says they have "eliminated lag" but I am skeptical...
This is exactly why I have no regrets getting the AT in my BMW, it performs incredibly well and has manners to fit both sporty and comfort situations. These modern high-performance autos, and even *some* CVTs in less sporty applications, are actually better suited for turbocharged engines IMO. While twin scroll, low inertia, and even twin charged setups are doing a lot to reduce lag, it isn't completely gone and since transmissions like the ZF 8AT in my BMW and even Honda's current CVT can operate faster than we humans can operate a manual it helps mitigate lag.
So...
I'm a fan of manual transmissions; I find they are more enjoyable to drive and I believe that they are more durable and economical than autos. I have heard the today's new automatics are great, but I drive older (cheaper) cars, so it will be a few years before I can agree or disagree. At least by then, we will have a good picture of the durability of today's wonder-automatics.
Anyway, one of the reasons I like manuals is the instant response. I can anticipate a corner or opening in traffic and be shifted into the right gear. Then, when it's time to GO, just mash down the gas pedal and the car goes, no torque converter slipping, no waiting for a kickdown in gear.
Recently, I bought my first turbo car, a Volvo S40 T5 with a 6 speed manual. Now, this car has a fairly large displacement engine (2.5 5-cyl) for its size and has a fairly small, low-pressure turbo. So you would think it would spool up quickly, and the lag at low RPM's wouldn't be too bad. And it's not a peaky power delivery; it's a flat torque curve that comes on at low rpms, 1500 to 2k.
BUT, what I'm coming to realize is that the turbo lag is giving me a similar sensation to a "slushbox" automatic. Instead of hitting the gas and getting an instant response, I press the accelerator pedal, wait just a bit for the boost to build and then accelerate. And, yeah, it's kind of a fun sensation to feel the boost hit, but it's also annoying... instead of power output being just a function of rpm and throttle, now it's a function of rpm, throttle, and time.
So I'm wondering if anybody else has a similar feeling. Does turbo lag take away from the instant throttle response that makes manuals fun to drive? Does it just seem like turbos work better with automatics anyway, because the time to kick down gives time for boost to build? It seems like more small cars are going the turbo route these days. And everybody says they have "eliminated lag" but I am skeptical...
This is exactly why I have no regrets getting the AT in my BMW, it performs incredibly well and has manners to fit both sporty and comfort situations. These modern high-performance autos, and even *some* CVTs in less sporty applications, are actually better suited for turbocharged engines IMO. While twin scroll, low inertia, and even twin charged setups are doing a lot to reduce lag, it isn't completely gone and since transmissions like the ZF 8AT in my BMW and even Honda's current CVT can operate faster than we humans can operate a manual it helps mitigate lag.
Several members in this forum had or still have this engine. I had it in X5, and while it has huge torqe, at low rpm's, lag is still present, regardless that it has two sequential turbo chargers.
I know what you mean. Turbos feel a little weird in the response. I have a stick shift Golf 1.8 Tsi that will make good power in the right conditions. Taking off in 1st gear is tricky because you can bog it down (no boost) or end up over powering the front wheel drive with too much boost. Its a fine line between not enough and too much power. My automatic truck serves up seemingly endless torque all over the place.
Originally Posted by brages
Does turbo lag take away from the instant throttle response that makes manuals fun to drive?
Only if all else (horsepower and torque) are equal between the two cars.
I'd rather have a turbo 4-cylinder with 300hp than a 200hp V6 with better throttle response.
Does turbo lag take away from the instant throttle response that makes manuals fun to drive?
Only if all else (horsepower and torque) are equal between the two cars.
I'd rather have a turbo 4-cylinder with 300hp than a 200hp V6 with better throttle response.
I'm a fan of naturally aspirated engines with more than sufficient power to get me going as quick as I need to be going. And with a modern automatic transmission for ease of driving.
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