Honda Z1 - Toyota WS

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Oct 15, 2005
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Hey guys With all of the reviews and comments here about Honda’s Z1 being of a weaker grade of ATF, what are your thoughts why Honda has not gone the synthetic based route for the Z1 like what Toyota has done with their WS ATF? Does Honda know something that we dont know? (bit of a loaded question, but you get the point) Regards
 
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Toyota hasn't gone the synthetic route. WS is the MPG route. Cost vs benefit, Honda needs to redo their graphs. If the lines cross in an area where a synthetic is needed, then we'll have it. If not, we're stuck with z1. Funny thing is, Honda isn't shy about creating fluid specs. They have unique CVTF, transfer case, PSF, and rear end fluids. IMO, ATF z1.5 is needed!
 

CB900F2

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All of the info and even a TSB indicates that Toyota WS is synthetic based
 Originally Posted By: unDummy
Toyota hasn't gone the synthetic route. WS is the MPG route. Cost vs benefit, Honda needs to redo their graphs. If the lines cross in an area where a synthetic is needed, then we'll have it. If not, we're stuck with z1. Funny thing is, Honda isn't shy about creating fluid specs. They have unique CVTF, transfer case, PSF, and rear end fluids. IMO, ATF z1.5 is needed!
 
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Everything is synthetic based. But, there is a difference between a fluid that is 90% synthetic compared to one that is 10%. Until synthetic is defined and not just a 'marketing' term, WS is a mineral based ATF, until proven otherwise with the actual formula. Synthetic additive package at 10% treat doesn't cut it! Even the candy bar I'm eating is synthetic based. Has hydrogenated vegetable oils, corn syrup, and the rest of the ingredients I couldn't even pronounce.
 
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 Originally Posted By: unDummy
Even the candy bar I'm eating is synthetic based. Has hydrogenated vegetable oils, corn syrup, and the rest of the ingredients I couldn't even pronounce.
pain killer
 
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Funny and so true. I ran WS for 30K and wasn't impressed. Its so pathetic how the word synthetic has become such a feel good word here in the states. "oh it's synthetic, then it must be the best!" Honda needs to learn how to build reliable transmissions and then revamp it's fluids accordingly. Z1 would most likely do just fine if it wasnt being severely molested by a poorly designed FWD transmission.
 
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 Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
Honda needs to learn how to build reliable transmissions and then revamp it's fluids accordingly. Z1 would most likely do just fine if it wasnt being severely molested by a poorly designed FWD transmission.
And if they can't build a decent auto transmission then they should start outsourcing it to Aisin.
 
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Do you think its the fluid? Or is it mechanical? I have ever know only 1 person who had a mechanical failure w/ a Honda tranny.(02 civic) I have used Z-1,Amsoil ATF,MaxLife,and Castrol Import all w/ no problems!I do a drain and fill ever other oil change w/ my Honda's.Call me obsessive! I would rate the Amsoil the best of the group, then its a toss up between the other 3!
 

pbm

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Mechanical. The 98'to 02' Accords (6th generation I think) had inferior 'carrier bearings' in the 4 cylinder A/T. The 6 cylinder cars had A/T problems too. I agree that Honda should outsource their trannys to Aisin before they lose too many repeat customers.
 
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