dead horse... kick...kick...
Honda vs. Toyota and the OnGoing 5w-20 Debate
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A scattershot selection of UOAs taken from different engines, at different mileages, under different sampling conditions, different OCIs, different fuels, and without any measurable degree of statistical significance are just indicators at best.
If this one grade is so clearly superior, then why haven't all the car makers gone with it? Why a sudden switch from Ford and Honda without any corresponding mechanical change in their engines? In developing all these different engines that now "require" 5w-20 did legions of Ford and Honda engineers all somehow miss that this "best" grade of oil was out there and then all mistakenly recommend using thicker oil??? I don't think so. In fact, the only reasonable conclusion is that whent these engines were designed, the folks that conceived them really thought 5w-30 or 10w-30 was the best choice for them. Then the beancounters and lawmakers got involved, and suddenly, another oil grade is better.
My jury will remain out until I see a large number of happy owners STILL posting good results after 7-10 hot summers worth of 5w-20 use.
You (and I) wish.
Yep...I'm not going to get suckered into one of these again.
(where's the Dead Horse Instant Graemlin)
Guys: Don't waste your time looking for the dead horse Graemlin. Try instead finding that little left arrow button, you know, the one entitled "Back," and clicking on it. Instantly, you will spare yourself the misery of dead horse conversations. I don't know about your computer setup, but mine doesn't have a gun that comes out and points at me while a pop-up appears ordering me to enter a thread I'm not interested in looking at, does yours??? BTW, my question did put a new twist on this issue (Honda vs. Toyota), which did draw one good, specific response.quote:
Originally posted by MNgopher:
dead horse... kick...kick...Yep...I'm not going to get suckered into one of these again. (where's the Dead Horse Instant Graemlin)
[ April 22, 2004, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]
There is no such thing as a modern 5w20 made with Group I. If it meets Ford's spec, it's made with Group II/II+, and III. Period. End of story. If it doesn't meet the Ford spec, but is certified GF-3, then it has to be made with Group II and/or II+. There is simply no way to build a 5wXX oil that meets either or both of these specs using Group I alone, or even with some Group I in the mix. (10w30 is another matter, however.) [/QB][/QUOTE]
I hate to be the grim reaper here but group I albeit in a small amount can be used with group II and III to achieve the Ford - Honda spec .
And I'll add at this point in the ways things get done a little group I+ might be the ticket to aid in both solvency and to aid additive fallout prevention
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/464342.pdf
[ April 22, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]
Well, I honestly wonder if this Citgo 5w20 actually meets the Ford spec based on that MSDS. If the 64742-54-7 is comprised of A LOT of Group III, then I could see it (the CAS # for Group II, II+, and III is the same). But if this is all Group II, then I have my doubts.quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike:
I hate to be the grim reaper here but group I albeit in a small amount can be used with group II and III to achieve the Ford - Honda spec.
Group I+ is a relative newcomer when it comes to base oils, so I can see how this 0-10% could be Group I+ and still meet the spec. But standard old low VI, low saturate, hi aromatic Group I? I don't buy that.
[ April 22, 2004, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: G-Man II ]
If I were going to use a 5w20 (and I have no plans ever to do that, but say I bumped my head really badly and decided to get 5w20), I would like the best. Look at Redline 5w20: HTHS is 3.3! Nice!
But now you are introducing another variable beyond viscosity.
Better Base oils used, to make this viscosity work. Why not apply that same price stocks into a 10w-30?
Fred...
[ April 22, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: palmerwmd ]
How does it differ from the way other oil companies rate HTHS? Redline rates it in terms of cSt at 150C using ASTM D4741.
Correctomundo....sometimes I enter things similar to a situation as one might meet a supermodel at a door. I go gaga and open the door for her...she slaps me in the face for being a chavinist pig. We both walk away happy.quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:
Guys: Don't waste your time looking for the dead horse Graemlin. Try instead finding that little left arrow button, you know, the one entitled "Back," and clicking on it. Instantly, you will spare yourself the misery of dead horse conversations. I don't know about your computer setup, but mine doesn't have a gun that comes out and points at me while a pop-up appears ordering me to enter a thread I'm not interested in looking at, does yours??? BTW, my question did put a new twist on this issue (Honda vs. Toyota), which did draw one good, specific response.quote:
Originally posted by MNgopher:
dead horse... kick...kick...Yep...I'm not going to get suckered into one of these again. (where's the Dead Horse Instant Graemlin)
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