Honda Shortens ATF Intervals, Again

[The Critic]

Just this morning, someone on AcuraZine posted that their 2006 Acura TSX had a "code 3" appear on their maintenance minder along with other codes.

A code 3 means that an automatic transmission fluid change is necessary. Car was only approaching 40,000 miles.

On the 2004-2005 TSXs, the manual said a change was needed at 60,000 miles under severe service and 120,000 under normal service. Talk about a huge difference!

Similar situation with the TL, though most people are getting the code around 60,000 miles.

It seems like Honda is the only OEM lately that is shortening their service interval as opposed to lengthening them like everyone else has been. In addition, they are even shortening oil change intervals it seems...many of the new TSXs are displaying < 15% oil life after 5k miles!

 

[buster]

I guess it pays to use better fluids or change the OEM fluids more often.

Honda hasn't exactly had the greatest track record when it comes to transmissions, although that was some time ago.

 

[Fester]

 

[benjamming]

So they are using rpm, temp, etc. as input to ATF change reminders as with engine oil? Interesting. Does the TSX & TL now have a real ATF filter like the newer Accord?

 

[The Critic]

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So they are using rpm, temp, etc. as input to ATF change reminders as with engine oil? Interesting. Does the TSX & TL now have a real ATF filter like the newer Accord?

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No, only the 06+ Honda Civic has an ATF life monitor. All other models have a fixed service interval for ATF (well, sort of).

Anyway, I'm just very surprised that Honda is now programming its Maintenance Minder for significantly shorter ATF intervals compared to before.

 

[Pablo]

Honda is choking a dead chicken.

I am heartened a bit that the 2006 Ody trannies aren't letting go at an alarming rate.

 

[Cutehumor]

ATF OLM is something I never heard of! wow.
who does 60k tranny oil changes?

I haven't personally had a trans failure in my 13 years of driving. but I know a lack of maintenance is key to failure for a trans. the only failures I know of in my family were from early 80's chrysler K cars

 

[artificialist]

I have seen certain fancy Cadillacs equipped with an ATF life monitor.

However, since I was doing oil changes to them with about 3000 miles on the odometer, I didn't get to see how quickly the ATF life went down, or how accurate it was.

 

[Lonnie]

A drain and refil is quick and cheap. An independent Honda shop here does the drain and refill every 15k miles for customers.

 

[1sttruck]

The OEM repair manual for my 93 Taurus states that ATF doesn't need to be changed unless some major has been done. A lot of people stepped in that bit of mechanical wisdom and had a hard time getting it off of their shoes.

 

[teaelle]

I highly recommend u change the ATF for your honda/acura at least every 10000 miles for those who put a lot of stress in their cars

for myself i do a drain/refill every 6000miles to make sure the ATF wont' go brownish

 

[The Critic]

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I highly recommend u change the ATF for your honda/acura at least every 10000 miles for those who put a lot of stress in their cars

for myself i do a drain/refill every 6000miles to make sure the ATF wont' go brownish

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The Honda transmissions are failing to a DESIGN ISSUE that is UNRELATED to fluid changes. You could change your fluid once a week and it would not extend the life of the unit.

 

[Gary Allan]

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The OEM repair manual for my 93 Taurus states that ATF doesn't need to be changed unless some major has been done. A lot of people stepped in that bit of mechanical wisdom and had a hard time getting it off of their shoes.

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I think lots of new car buyers in the 90's experienced the shock and awe of just how expensive an automatic rebuild is after a few generations of never needing to service them for the life of the car. It was a devolution in my opinion. My daughter's 91 Taurus already had the rebuild via the previous owner ..and he even needed to do something again on warranty.

..but I don't know how much added service would have saved these people $$$. Many of the 90's rebuilds were due to lame/weak/underspec'd parts. The AXOD appeared to require some one time fix ..but the Ultradrives needed nearly a decade to figure out the lameness of the hardware. Abuse may have occurred in a few..or so I reason.

..but the whole experience has created a paranoia that can't be shook. It's founded in reality ..so paranoia isn't quite the right term. Reasonable service intervals are relatively cheap compared to the event that you're trying to avoid. So, it's got our attention and we respond with more frequent service intervals and/or synthetic fluids ..aux filtration and cooling ..and hope that the material design/reliability flaws have been engineered out.

 

[benjamming]

Critic,

Careful with the narrow focus that you have on the 5-speed AT. The 4-speed AT fails due to the carrier bearings. Better, cleaner, and cooler fluid can certainly help in this area. However, due to possibly a variety of reasons, poor design, material choice, manufacturing, fluid dynamics, etc. will eventually cause most of these units to fail as well.

 

[pbm]

Benjamming: Is the carrier bearing located inside the tranny where the drive shaft (to the CV joint) exits the tranny? Why does Honda (HEC) not 'upgrade' the carrier bearing in the rebuilt units that they install under warranty? I've heard that the rebuilds are essentially the same as the originals.

 

[benjamming]

Correct about the location as one symptom was red fluid over the undercarriage. They probably didn't do much b/c they stopped producing this AT in the 2002 model year Accord. The warranty extension wasn't until a couple years later. I surely don't know if the bearing was upgraded or not & if not, then why not. Maybe it is a deeper design issue that played itself out in the carrier bearing? There's no telling.

 

[unDummy]

Critic, why would they do that if shortening the ATF change interval doesn't make a difference? or if brown Z1 ATF is still good?

BTW, I wouldn't brag about a mild drop in interval. If they seriously put a real low mileage or time limit on the ATF, then I would be impressed.

Concerning the ATF OLM, if there isn't any fancy algorithm(like GMs oilLM), then its simply a mleage or time based 'switch' or idiot light reminder. Anyone knows for sure how Hondacura counts down the ATF life?

 

[The Critic]

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Critic, why would they do that if shortening the ATF change interval doesn't make a difference? or if brown Z1 ATF is still good?

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I never said it didn't make a difference. I said that replacing it more often than recommended is of questionable benefit. Unless the fluid looks like the dark roast coffee that I just drank, I could care less.

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BTW, I wouldn't brag about a mild drop in interval. If they seriously put a real low mileage or time limit on the ATF, then I would be impressed.

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Mild drop?

They went from 120,000 miles to UNDER 40,000 miles. That's 1/3 of the original interval!

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Concerning the ATF OLM, if there isn't any fancy algorithm(like GMs oilLM), then its simply a mleage or time based 'switch' or idiot light reminder. Anyone knows for sure how Hondacura counts down the ATF life?

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Certain Honda models have the algorithm. The 2006 Civic is one of them. All of the other ones are a mileage counter.

 

[Brogy]

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Critic, why would they do that if shortening the ATF change interval doesn't make a difference? or if brown Z1 ATF is still good?

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I never said it didn't make a difference. I said that replacing it more often than recommended is of questionable benefit. Unless the fluid looks like the dark roast coffee that I just drank, I could care less.

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The Honda transmissions are failing to a DESIGN ISSUE that is UNRELATED to fluid changes. You could change your fluid once a week and it would not extend the life of the unit.

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Dunno, looks like you made it pretty clear that fluid didnt matter, to me at least.

 

[Mr Nice]

How about just totally avoiding *any* car or SUV that is known to have transmission problems ??