Honda Self Propelled Mower...Won't Propel

[SlipperyPete]

My HRR216VLA rear drive self propelled mower won't self propel. The rear wheels will turn if they are off the ground, but they won't move the mower when they are on the ground. I replaced the rear wheels this spring because they were getting worn down. I figured the belt was probably slipping since the wheels would turn off the ground so I changed the belt, but it didn't help. I just put in a new transaxle and it is still doing the same thing. The drive cable pulls the transmission completely into position but it won't go no matter how tight I adjust the cable. I had my wife engage the self propel with the mower tipped up on its side and everything was turning just as it should.

I'm at a complete loss with this. Any suggestions are appreciated.

ETA: When I checked the drive cable per the owners manual, the wheels would never lock when being pulled backward as I pushed down to engage the self propel.

 

[2017Edge]

Have you ever serviced the differential? Clean out the black stuff with a rag or paper towel when you change the oil.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Have you ever serviced the differential? Clean out the black stuff with a rag or paper towel when you change the oil.

Wouldn't the diff be part of the new transaxle I just put in?

 

[bcossa2020]

This just happened to me with my Lawn Boy after replacing the tranny.....
On my mower there are small drive gears on the axle at each rear wheel and I initially installed them backwards with your identical symptom. Pulled the wheels removed the gear, flipped it around and that fixed it. Check them before you re-install the wheel, I.e confirm they turn both forwards and backwards......
The only other suggestion is that maybe your wheels are on the wrong side right to left. I would swap them first and if that does not fix it do the drive gears per above.
Hope this helps....

 

[SlipperyPete]

Epiphany!!!

I'll just take that transaxle right back out, bolt the wheels back on, and have the regular push mower I should have bought in the first place.

 

[MrHorspwer]

I second what @bcossa2020 says. Take off the drive gears, make sure they're in good shape (keys and springs), and make sure they're installed on the correct side. With the engine not running, your mower should click when pushing forward. If it clicks when pulling the mower backward, they're installed on the wrong side and you'll have no propulsion.

The drive gears look like this:

 

[SlipperyPete]

The gears are on the same sides they always were, and the ratchet keys click when the mower is pushed forward.

 

[bcossa2020]

I second what @bcossa2020 says. Take off the drive gears, make sure they're in good shape (keys and springs), and make sure they're installed on the correct side. With the engine not running, your mower should click when pushing forward. If it clicks when pulling the mower backward, they're installed on the wrong side and you'll have no propulsion.

The drive gears look like this:

Those keys and springs are interesting engineering...I can’t get it straight in my head how/why they work.....

The gears are on the same sides they always were, and the ratchet keys click when the mower is pushed forward.

you have to flip the gears around. The part facing outside should be facing inside.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Those keys and springs are interesting engineering...I can’t get it straight in my head how/why they work.....

you have to flip the gears around. The part facing outside should be facing inside.

I'm not sure I understand. If I flip the gears around they will only operate properly when I pull the mower backward. The flat edge in the photos posted above will catch on the ratchet keys if I flip them and try to push the mower forward.

 

[SlipperyPete]

This condition has come gradually since last summer, leading me to believe it was caused by wear. So far, I've replaced the rear wheels, drive belt, and transmission/axle assembly. When I engage the smart drive with the engine off, I can't move the belt by hand no matter how hard I try. I conclude from this the belt and pulleys are OK, and the drive cable is working and properly adjusted. With the mower running and the smart drive engaged, I can see everything is turning including the drive wheels when they are off the ground. I conclude from this the problem must be a power loss somewhere between the shaft and the rear wheels. I've replaced everything in that chain except the drive gears. They are turning the wheels off the ground so they must be engaged, and I don't hear any grinding when the wheels are on the ground but the mower won't go and the plastic gears on the fairly new wheels don't show any wear or damage.

 

[bcossa2020]

Well, I don’t understand the engineering to be honest.
My wheels would turn (albeit slowly) when I held it off the ground.
I reversed the gears and it fixed it.
I would “flip” one gear and see if that wheel behaves properly -see it it moves in both directions by hand before changing the other one.

 

[Audioquest]

Is it belt drive? If so, do you need a new drive belt?

 

[JTK]

Have you ever removed and replaced the axle bushings? Those will corrode and will bind up the axle so badly it will smoke the transaxle.

Like you've found, the small drive gears above are machined in the inside like little one way clutches. This is why you can freewheel the mower w/out and have the drive system going at the same time. Flip those gears around and you'll only be able to freewheel pulling the mower backwards.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Is it belt drive? If so, do you need a new drive belt?

I replaced the drive belt, then the new transaxle came with another new belt.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Have you ever removed and replaced the axle bushings? Those will corrode and will bind up the axle so badly it will smoke the transaxle.

Like you've found, the small drive gears above are machined in the inside like little one way clutches. This is why you can freewheel the mower w/out and have the drive system going at the same time. Flip those gears around and you'll only be able to freewheel pulling the mower backwards.

I have not done anything with the bushings. I'll see how they are when I take it apart this evening.

 

[JohnnyG]

I've used a Honda HR215 for about 20 years, I've "blown" the sprags before, but it was an easy fix. What is sometimes not so apparent is the tires actually slipping on the wheels(rims). That happened a couple of times until I glued them to the wheels (don't remember what I used) and all was fine until I left it go with my house.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Problem solved. I now have a push mower that works great. I had to turn the transaxle into a plain old axle so I could use the spacers and gears to properly support the rear wheels and eliminate any resistance from the transmission, but now I have what I should have bought in the first place.