Honda Pilot, M 1 SS 0W-30

[LubeRube]

Results from Blackstone

2003 Pilot, 3.5L V6, VTEC
Miles at sample: 14,256 [But Lab thought it was
74,256--probably my bad handwriting]
Miles on oil: 3,751 [approx. 1500 mi. hwy]
Makeup oil: 0

First no. is current UOA, Second no. is VOA on oil from earlier analysis

aluminum 4 0
chromium 1 0
iron 14 1
copper 36 0
lead 1 0
tin 0 0
molybdenum 55 75
nickel 0 0
manganese 0 0
silver 0 0
titanium 0 0
potassium 0 0
boron 130 182
silicon 7 4
sodium 6 8
calcium 2692 2666
magnesium 55 18
phosphorus 773 847
zinc 1035 955
barium 0 0
SUS vis @ 210F 59.3 [should be 55-62]
flashpoint 395F [VOA was 445, M1 says 450]
fuel less than 0.5
antifreeze 0.0
water 0.0
insolubles 0.4 [trace in VOA]

LAB COMMENTS: At first glance it appears copper is high in the spectral examination, but when you compare wear to average, it is okay. Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type engine after a routine oil run. Your oil was in use 3,751 miles, short of an average oil use run for the type, and we found all wear from the engine at around average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside. Air and oil filtration look okay. No gas or coolant found. the TBN was 9.0, which
shows you haven't hurt this oil any in 3,751 miles use.

 

[joee12]

Looks pretty good, especially the fact that the oil stayed in grade, and the TBN still looks good. I am glad to see this, since I am going to try the SS 0W30 next interval. Thanks for the post, Joe

 

[buster]

No make up oil, nice! Goes to show you that the engine has alot, if everything, to do with oil consumption. I'm running the 0w now and am really buring it up. I do have 110k miles so this is to be expected. A friend at work is running 0w30 and has had no consumption problems in a new Accord.

 

[LubeRube]

By the way VOA TBN was 12.5.
Can anyone comment on this report specifically in light of the fact that the oil was put in at 10,500 while the engine was relatively new? I mean is that copper no. good for this type of engine at that mileage? Is there something special about VTEC and early wear?

 

[Patman]

A lot of new engines show a lot of copper during break in, and some (like the LS1 engine) even show high numbers right up to 50 or 60k! But even with the higher copper, it doesn't seem to cause more wear, because your lead number isn't suffering as a result, it's very good. Iron is probably a bit higher because of the cold weather (I know that a lot of parts of Texas have seen their fair share of cold temps this year). The copper should come down with each subsequent interval.

[ March 06, 2003, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Spector]

High copper! Ha, my 2000 Buick 3.8L V6 SC has had three samples, 4400 miles, 16,000 miles and 29,000 miles on engine . (initial at 4400 and 12,000 mile intervals since) Copper was 400, 300 and last was 194. Coming on down; under 100 that would be great the next time. Actually if we look at the copper ppm per mile and stretch it out to 12,000 miles it would read at 115 ppm at that point assuming ave wear througout the wear interval.

[ March 06, 2003, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Spector has anyone found the source of that copper? Terry? I know he was working on the GM copper issue. I have a L67 motor now too (2001). Hope the copper isn't like that. But it has 18k so I don't know what it was like before.
Do these engines knock like the V8's with the copper problem? I sure hope not.

 

[Jay]

My Acura RSX showed about the same amount of iron at about the same stage in it's break-in period with Mobil 1 0w-30. However, my copper was < 1ppm/1000mi. I wonder where the Cu is coming from since you have no Pb or Sn to speak of?
It's interesting these two engines would be so different. I burned right through Mobil 1 0w-30.

 

[LubeRube]

Bror Jace, I have used only Honda filters. Also, FYI I used the factory oil for the first 5000 miles, then Amsoil 5W20 for 2500, then another amsoil 5W20 change at the 7500 mile checkup and finally the Mobil 1 0w30 at 10505.

I plan to use the new Mobil 1 0W20 at the 15000 mark and then analyze it. Does this sound like a good plan?

 

[Bror Jace]

Rube, both iron and copper look a little high to me. After all, this is the better Mobil 1 SuperSyn (with moly) and only 3,751 miles on it ... half of them highway.

What filter did you use?

I assume this engine still may be showing elevated levels associated with being new ('cept silicon which seems to have already stabilized). I bet if you continue to have your oil tested, these amounts should come down and both will be in the single digits ... especially once you're past the 20,000 mile mark.

With my Civic and older Mobil 1 formulations, I never used a drop of make-up oil before I changed it at the 5,000-6,000 mile mark. This was true until I gathered 100,000 miles on the clock and I switched to Valvoline Synpower.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:

Spector has anyone found the source of that copper? Terry? I know he was working on the GM copper issue. I have a L67 motor now too (2001). Hope the copper isn't like that. But it has 18k so I don't know what it was like before.
Do these engines knock like the V8's with the copper problem? I sure hope not.

---

This engine is really quiet and runs great. Source of copper, not sure but if the trend continues to move down to reasonable levels I will be fine with that.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:

Spector has anyone found the source of that copper? Terry? I know he was working on the GM copper issue. I have a L67 motor now too (2001). Hope the copper isn't like that. But it has 18k so I don't know what it was like before.
Do these engines knock like the V8's with the copper problem? I sure hope not.

---

If you look at the used oil analysis on LS1 engines with high copper, the other wear metals don't seem to suffer accordingly, so I think the copper in there is relatively harmless.

 

[LubeRube]

Blackstone now tells me in a followup report that they have seen similar copper levels in Honda 3.5L engines.