Honda Odyssey oil

[Canuk]

Does anyone have any experience, or know if I could safely use Mobil 1 10W-30 during the winter months in my 2000 Odyssey. The owners manual says that 5W-30 is preffered for all temperatures, but 10W-30 can be used for temperatures above 20 deg F. (-7 deg C). The temperatures here in Bowmanville Ontario can sometimes dip to -15 deg F.(-23 deg C). Are these Honda recommendations based on non-synthetic oil?, which mean the synthetic will work ok?

A number of people here have said that 10W-30 will protect an engine better than 5W-30. I would like to give it a try unless anyone knows for sure that it does not.

One more item: Honda is now recommending 5W-20 oil for its new vehicles, and is saying its also good for 1998 and newer ones as well. Does this fact suggest that the tolerances in Honda engines are too tight for 10W-30?

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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A number of people here have said that 10W-30 will protect an engine better than 5W-30.

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Depends. 9 out of 10 people are 90% wrong sometimes...there is much more to motor oil than the W viscosity.

Lemme put it this way: Follow the manual regardless if synthetic or not and IF I lived in Ontario, 5W-30 would be the "heaviest" oil I would use and probably would use 0W-30.

 

[LubeRube]

I have been using 5w-20 synthetic since the summer in a new 2003 Honda Pilot in Texas. It's the same engine as yours, I think, only tweaked for more horsepower. Seems to run fine and get good gas mileage, but I have done no oil analysis. See the "5w-20" topic I started.

 

[Patman]

I'm going to be running 10w30 all year round here in Toronto, and it shouldn't be a problem. Remember that a synthetic 10w30 will flow better in cold weather than a dino 5w30 would.

 

[Canuk]

Patman:

Does the vehicle you're running the 10W-30 in, call for 5W-30 in our winter temps?

 

[Canuk]

Pablo:

What did you mean by, "there is much more to motor oil than the W viscocity"

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Canuk:
Patman:

Does the vehicle you're running the 10W-30 in, call for 5W-30 in our winter temps?

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My car is a 95 Firebird Formula and the owner's manual says 5w30 preferred, but 10w30 is acceptable at above minus18C (0F) Being a 350 LT1, it has looser clearances than most engines, so it can probably handle the thicker oils in colder weather better, that much is true.

But I still think you'd be safe running 10w30 synthetic in winter. I once did a backyard test and put a few bottles of oil outside on a very cold -25C night and the Mobil 1 10w30 flowed out of the bottle considerably better than the 5w30 dino oil I put out there with it. I actually couldn't see much difference in how the 5w30 and 10w30 Mobil 1s both flowed, they appeared similar. I admit this test wasn't very scientific but it did illustrate my point somewhat.

That being said, I may be trying an experiment in my wife's 2000 Honda Civic and I might actually run 5w20 in it for a couple of intervals! (this is only if Royal Purple doesn't send me the free oil they promised me many moons ago, if that stuff comes I have to run it instead)

My 5w20 experiment would be a 2.5k interval at first to compare to the 5k M1 5w30 interval which is almost complete. Then I'll do a second 2.5k interval with 5w20, this time adding a moly additive to see if it reduces engine wear. Then on the next interval, I'll do another 2.5k interval, but this time with 10w30. I may even try an interval with 15w40 in the summer too. All of this will be with Pennzoil dino to be consistent, and I'll only be concerned with the engine wear numbers to see if viscosity does play a factor in that. The only reason I'd be doing the shorter 2.5k intervals is to speed up the test (my wife only drives about 150mi per week), since everyone knows I'm not a big fan of the frequent oil change.

[ November 11, 2002, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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What did you mean by, "there is much more to motor oil than the W viscocity"

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I just meant in relation to your original post saying that 10W-30 protects better than 5W-30, there are many 5W's that provide better protection than many 10W's. Viscosity isn't the end all, be all in a motor oil. Stick around this site, read all you can. Pretty soon you'll know as much as some of the experts you site. Can you provide a reference to these people?

 

[carl97ss]

with the general accepted understanding that 90% of engine wear accures at start up, why wouldn't you want to use a 0w or 5w oil to get it flowing faster at start up in cold temps?

Patman, I've never found LT1 factory tolerances (except for perhaps piston slap on some motors when cold...

)to be any larger than other factory engines. It is generally believed that Honda/Acura engines have some of the closest bearing clearances. I put oils in my freezer

(The wife loves that one

) and do the same as you in comparing how they flow. I agee most synthetics flow better at low temps than the same weight dino's. Interstingly, I did find that Chevron Supreme 5w30 dino, flows nearly as well as 5w Mobil 1 SS at zero F.

 

[Patman]

Even if most of the engine wear occurs during startup, who's to say that the 5w and 0w oils flow all that much quicker under most normal circumstances, compared to 10w30? For example, on a 70 or 80 degree day, the difference is probably minimal, they all flow the same. But the rest of that time, when the engine is warmed up, those 5w30 and 0w30 oils aren't going to perform as well because they'll thin out and evaporate more easily than 10w30, plus they don't have as high of an HTHS value either, so under hard use they aren't going to protect as well.

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
But the rest of that time, when the engine is warmed up, those 5w30 and 0w30 oils aren't going to perform as well because they'll thin out and evaporate more easily than 10w30, plus they don't have as high of an HTHS value either, so under hard use they aren't going to protect as well.

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I don't have the knowledge to disagree based on fact but on experience I have used a 0W30 for the past two years in a realatively hot climate (winters never below +10F) and my analysis is about the same as using a 10W of the same brand, both Amsoil. Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable dealers can address this issue but the 0W30 holds up comparable to the 10W. Oil analysis for me about the same so I don't think it thins out as you describe. I go one year between changes filter at 6 months but only gets about 8000 miles during the year.

[ November 11, 2002, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[Patman]

Spector, the one problem with your comparison between 0w30 Amsoil and 10w30 Amsoil is that they are not created equal. The 0w30 is the Series 3000, which is built a little bit better to withstand (supposedly) 35k intervals, while the 10w30 is built to withstand (once again, supposedly) a 25k interval. So it's not quite a simple comparison there.

I would be willing to bet that someone using 0w30 Mobil 1 in the hot summer would not see as favorable results as if they had used 10w30 Mobil 1.

 

[Jay]

Mobil 1's 10w-30 kinematic viscosity, for example, at -20*C is about 2700 cSt compared to 2,000 cSt for 5w-30. So the 10w-30's kinematic viscosity is 35% higher than the 5w-30. It's cold cranking viscosity is 70% higher and it's cold pumping viscosity is about 37% higher. Why would you choose an oil that has poorer cold temperature performance in a cold temperature climate? The 10w-30 will protect no better in hot temperatures.

 

[carl97ss]

Hey Canuk, how we doing in getting this answered for you?

I have to agree w/ Jay. I think Patman is referring to some wear metal data of 5w vs 10w oils. The 5w oils had higher wear metals. was the oils tested in the same general temp range? was there a repeatible test of 5w vs 10w in cold temps? I don't know. I don't believe a 5w30 and 10w30 synthetic's evaporation rate during winter temps is significantly different to be a consideration. I do have concerns about 0w30 protecting well enough in a hi-perf motor at higher tempuratures. In the winter I do believe that the difference in time it takes to get oil to your cam bearings and lifters, is a consideration. If it takes only 10% less time to get oil flowing into your cam bearings, 0w vs 10w, I would do it. I think it is probably a longer time period difference between the two. Frankly, in the temps you and i see in the winter(most of the time above zero F. sometimes in the -5 to -15F.) , 0w might be over kill especially if we see the occasional +45 to 50F day in the winter. During summer temps that we saw this summer in the Midwest (+90)I did notice a difference in oil consumption (evaporation, burned, i don't know) in my '97 maxima when using 10w30 M1 TriSyn vs 0w40 M1 SupSyn. All I know is that the SupSyn stayed at the full line during the same general temps and driving conditions. Either way, there are some fine compromises w/ any choice. For me, I want fairly quick oil flow to my bearings in the winter. IMHO.

[ November 11, 2002, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: carl97ss ]

 

[Johnny]

I'm in shock!

I had to read this post three times to believe what I read. PATMAN is going to do some oil testing in his wife's Honda using PENNZOIL.

My son's college fund is secure.

Here's to you PATMAN.

 

[Canuk]

carl97ss:

You guys did a great job of answering my questions. I want to thank everyone who responded to my question. I just finished changing the oil in the Odyssey -- I stuck with the 5w-30 mobil 1 tri-synth (I've got 5 jugs of it). Most of you guys seemed to think that the lower viscosity (for startup protection) of the 5W will do me more good than the increased viscosity of the 10W for protection at full engine temps. Maybe I'll try the 10W-30 for my spring oil change, when the outside temps are within Honda's acceptable range and see if the engine sounds any happier with it.

Patman: I'll be watching to see how your wife's civic makes out this winter with the 10w-30 M1. I figure I'll use it as a guiney pig, and if it fairs better with it, I might continue with the 10W-30 into next winter. By then I'll probably have to purchase some of the new ss mobil 1.

 

[Canuk]

Oh, by the way guys, the oil change I just did on the Odyssey (5w-30 tri-synth) had 4200km on it and 4 months, which meant it saw a lot of last summer's heat. The oil level did not drop at all on the dipstick. The appearance on the dipstick was dark amber and it was starting to get a bit smelly. Nothing scientific, but for what it's worth.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny:
I'm in shock!

I had to read this post three times to believe what I read. PATMAN is going to do some oil testing in his wife's Honda using PENNZOIL.

My son's college fund is secure.

Here's to you PATMAN.

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Hehe, no problem Johnny! I know that Pennzoil is a great oil, but to be honest the main reason I'm using it is because it's the only brand that sells 5w20 at Walmart and Canadian Tire up here. But I also like the fact that it uses a group 2+ base oil, plus a bit of moly. Who knows, if the testing works out I may just stick with this stuff.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Canuk:
Patman: I'll be watching to see how your wife's civic makes out this winter with the 10w-30 M1. I figure I'll use it as a guiney pig, and if it fairs better with it, I might continue with the 10W-30 into next winter. By then I'll probably have to purchase some of the new ss mobil 1.

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Carl, my wife's Honda is now running 5w30 TriSynthetic Mobil 1 (SJ formula) and I'm not going to be using 10w30 in it for the winter, it's either going to be 5w30 Royal Purple (if my free oil arrives, I've yet to hear anything) or it's going to be 5w20 Pennzoil. It's my Firebird that is running 10w30 through the winter, but not Mobil 1, it's got Schaeffer Supreme 7000 blend.

 

[Canuk]

Patman:

What!? You're going to run 5W-20 oil in your wife's civic? I thought you are dead set against that thin stuff? Why not try the 10W-30 ss m1 in it instead? That way we could all see if the synthetic 10w-30 M1 really can flow in the winter temps in those Hondas. Ha. Ha.