Honda Odyssey Break In and Winter Temps

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Hi,

I'm a newbie member to the site. I've checked out this site for about 2-3 years, researching sludge issues to make me feel better about my 1998 Sienna purchase and since purchasing a new Odyssey I decided to take the plunge..

On this forum I know that people are saying that the Honda Odyssey has a high moly break-in oil and should not be (per the manual) changed until 5000 miles (and I imagine it is actually 5000 miles or 6 months whichever comes first). My concern/question is should I keep the factory oil in for up to 6 months or 5000 miles (whichever comes first) since winter is coming. I understand the reason for keeping the high moly oil in. However, since it get cold soon and I assume that the break-in oil is dino, wouldn't it be wise to change the oil after the first 1000 miles and go to synthetic, for the low pour point or would it be better to leave the break-in oil in, take the higher wear due to the break-in dino oil not flowing well at cold temps and change it after 6 months/5000 miles?

Hopefully I didn't confuse anyone..

Thanks for all answers in advance!
 
I can speak with some authority on this issue since I to have a new Honda Odyssey. I would leave the factory fill oil in there until 5,000 or 6 months. Yes it is a dino but it is a good Group II dino with a very good additive package in it. The 5W20 that comes in the van has almost as good a pour point as any synthetic you might choose to use. After the 5,000 miles or 6 months, change to whatever synthetic you choose to.

Not knowing where you live or what your winters are like I am basing my opinion on where I live in Northern Wisconsin where winters get very cold.

This is just my opinion and if I had to do it all over again I would not change a thing.

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I changed my Odyssey's oil at 2900 miles, put in regular dino 5w20, and plan to run it for about 5K. Assuming I have no oil consumption (which I haven't yet), I was going to go to a synthetic 5-20 or mix Mobil 1 synthetic and Mobil One 5-20 and run it for 7500 miles or until the oil minder says there's 20% life left in the oil, which ever comes first. I think this is going to be overkill, though. BTW, I consider myself to be a raging Newbie, too, so don't take my plan as one developed by an engineer! Also, I am open to rational reasons to make a different plan!
 
It is probably the same engine as my Ridgeline, a V6-VTEC. Go by the OLM and you'll have no problems. For extra protection just use LC20.
 
What would the driving conditions be? What is the recomended OCI interval?

Anyway,IMO, I would dump the factory fill at 1k, refill with Exxon Superflo or Mobil Clean 5000 5w20 then dump that at 3k. I would do 2 more OCI's of 3k miles. Then do the 5k/6 months interval and get an UOA for guidance on what to do next.
 
I would dump (and did myself) at between 1k and 2k. Several people on the Acura boards (basically same engine) have done oil analysis and turns out the oil is a mess if left in till past 4k miles. Tons of metal and other break in contaminates. Perhaps Mr. Wan will chime as our oil expert to back me up?

There is nothing at all exotic or special about the factory fill. It is made by Exxon-Mobil. Refill with Havoline 5-20 which is 350+ppm moly right out of the bottle and you will be just fine. The factory oil comes out about 400ppm, so with the Havoline you will be right up there, but you will have clean oil circulating around your new engine.

Do what you want, but for me I take no chances considering I change the oil myself for a total cost of about $10.

My schedule: Changed at 1,800, 4,500, 7,500 and now will follow the OLM.
 
quote:

Originally posted by merlin64:
...There is nothing at all exotic or special about the factory fill. It is made by Exxon-Mobil...

Though continually reported on BITOG, I'm not convinced that statement's true or ever was. There was an article in the September 21 edition of "Lube Report" which mentioned that Nippon Oil supplies Japanese U.S. plants. Nippon Oil had been using U.S. toll-blenders to produce product in the U.S. since the 1980s, but the article goes on to say the company just broke ground on its own blending facility in Childersberg, AL to supply Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai.
 
I have an 03 Accord and an 05 TL and changed both out at about 3,000. Put Honda 5w20 in the Accord till 10,000, then M1 5w30. In the TL I went with Havoline 5w20 for the moly claimed to be in it. Plant to go to M1 5w20 at the next change at 10,000. BTW the Accor is at 35,000 miles and never uses a drop between intervals and is always golden looking FWIW.
 
Honda factory oil will look ugly on a UOA at 5,000 miles, but just as ugly at 2,000 miles. The ugly factor is not linear, rahter inherent with a new engine
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Your second and third UOAs will look sooo much better regardless of the first UCI, as it should. No need to dump it early, but if it's just killing you not to change it early, go ahead.
 
I have an '00 Odyssey and a '03 Civic, both of which I bought new, and I purchased both of them in early February. I live in Tennessee, so the climate is moderate, but February is pretty cold! I changed the factory oil at 3800 miles / 5 months on both of them, and I think that was about the right timing given my mostly in-town driving.

Anyway, in my opinion the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to give your new powertrain a proper chance to warm-up, drive-off moisture & raw fuel, and break-in in the cold weather. This will help keep your factory oil cleaner. For example, given winter start-ups on my new cars, I decided to drive the long-way to work, including a little highway driving when I could, so that I was driving for at least 15 minutes. On weekends, I took a few 50-mile trips around the countryside where I was able to vary the speed, climb hills (vary the load), etc. I had never seen some of these area, so it was quite enjoyable!

My experience with my Hondas is that these are very "tight" engines when new that will loosen-up nicely after ~1500 miles or so. I don't do any hard-driving, and I don't think that the "drive it like you stole it" break-in technique on these tight engines is advisable.

Enjoy your GREAT new van!
 
I totally agree with johnny. Keep the factory oil in as per factory recomendations. Too many self appointed experts recomend changing the factory oil out too early to the dentrament of their engines.
 
All,

Thanks so far for all the responses so far! Obviously there are multiple points of view here.

Personally, I would have changed the oil (and filter) after 1000 miles, then gone to a synthetic 5w-20, either Mobil1, Amsoil, or Redline. However, after reading the posts on the 5K mile change out of the original factory fill (and those who didn't recommend it) long with the owner's manual, I'm torn between doing it at 3000-4000 miles.

All the cars I had in the past I changed the oil between 500 - 1000 miles, and since 1994, always used synthetic at the first oil change... So far none of them have have given me problems. My 1996 Accord and 97 Civic never burned a drop of oil or leaked.

My main thing is that here in the NY metro area, I'd rather not change oil in the middle of winter (on my own) plus having dino in my 30K investment for too long won't make my day.... Metal to metal grinding doesn't make my day!
 
quote:

plus having dino in my 30K investment for too long won't make my day.... Metal to metal grinding doesn't make my day!

Huh? Are you saying that conventional oil is going to cause metal-to-metal grinding if run out to 5k, 7.5k, or 10k in a Honda? I don't think so.
 
Sorry I wasn't clear. In the winter, if my cars have been left out in the cold, at startup, I've heard grinding sounds at startup.. Once the oil gets to the cylinder's then the grinding sounds stop.. That is what I was referring to..
 
quote:

A lot of what you refer to as "self appointed experts" also seem to claim dirty oil is better than clean.

- The same subject that I touched on in the similar, current Toyota thread, I don't think you realize what the actually size is, of these particles.

The filter is collecting 15 micron & larger particles, the particle size of metals listed in a used oil analyis may be down to 5 microns & smaller.

Last time I checked, 1 micron equals 1/25,000 of an inch or .00004 inch. The period at the end of this sentence is estimated to be 200 microns.

A 1-5 micron particle is difficult to detect with the naked eye and this particle size is creating the "metal to metal contact"?
 
Sorry, I know I should just leave it alone, but that “self appointed experts” comment rankles me!

Merlin64 - Again, wear metal particles carried in the oil stream do not automatically generate "metal–to-metal" contact.

Take a look at the oft-quoted Spacebears/Paradise Garage Synthetic Oil Life Study . This study was run with GF-3, M1 5W-30 in a Camaro LS-1 engine for 18,000 miles. (Note: Brian Shreurs, 3MP log-in, is a Bitog member and quite a few Bitog members also contributed $ to the study).

This oil carried 100+ ppm of copper from the 5K mark all the way thru the 18K final drain!

If the 100ppm of copper actually contributed to any additional wear, why didn’t the level grow with mileage?
 
quote:

..."self appointed experts" also seem to claim dirty oil is better than clean. I'd like to see some true evidence on this as it seems very counterintuitive.

Well, awrighty!
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3MP's statement, as viewed in the above link, helped kick-off the controversy:

Quote per Brian Schreurs in his M1 5W-30 Synthetic Oil Life Study:

Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.

And SWRI, the major engine test lab, Makes This Statement :

Testing with partially stressed oil, which contained some wear debris, produced less wear than testing with clean oil. This finding was unexpected and initially confusing (further inquiry suggested that the result was not so surprising, as many oil chemistries require time and temperature to enhance their effectiveness).
 
quote:

Too many self appointed experts recomend changing the factory oil out too early to the dentrament of their engines.

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This has been discussed time and time again here on this board.

I've always changed the oil out around 1k and ALL the outfits I've owned (and my Family)have lasted and are still on the road after HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of miles using what ever oil was on sale (around $1 a quart) and changed 4-5k.

No oil buring, No leaks, no failing smog, no running problems, just a normal motor running like it should...

If you think leaving oil in there for 10k miles like Honda wants is good, Great!

(Make sure you keep the OEM filter in there till 20k!)

But Oil is cheap and I'll change it. And have the PROOF many times that it does not cause "dentrament of their engines"...

Look at the UOAs of factory fill and see if it's worth less than $10 to get fresh oil in there and clean out more metals.

Oh, I forgot.. It's better to have more metal in your oil.. So, I guess the best UOA is one with TONS of metal in it.. I've been looking at this UOA stuff in the wrong light.

Changing oil is bad. Metals in oil is good.

I Got it!
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Where is your PROOF that changing out the oil early causes "dentrament of their engines"?

Amazing.
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Take care, Bill
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PS: sorry to vent.. But we have so many new people here reading posts and your statement had to be called out.

PPS: Nice Honda Van with a great engine! My Dad has the same engine in his VUE and we changed the factory oil out at 1k and again at 3k and went to 6months or 5k with Pennzoil 5w-20 with it. UOA was great after 7k on the motor.
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Eddie,

I'd like to know what your evidence is that an early change is detrimental to the engine. A lot of what you refer to as "self appointed experts" also seem to claim dirty oil is better than clean. I'd like to see some true evidence on this as it seems very counterintuitive. Are you telling me an early change is worse than leaving dirty oil in the engine for an extended period? Remember the Honda OLM can go up to 10k miles, all of that could be on the original factory fill. No thanks for my $31k investment.

BTW it's funny how many people say "oh Honda says leave it in so leave it in" but then change their oil filter on their Honda every oil change. Honda recommends changing the filter every OTHER change, or up to 20k miles on one filter. Honda says that's ok so do you think that is the best practice? Or is the best practice to change it every oil change?

Honda also "stongly recommends" their own branded oil. Funny how many people who say "Honda knows best" ignore this advice from Honda and put in whatever they want. Do you trust Honda or don't you?

Sure your engine won't explode if you don't change it early. But surely it won't if you do change early at say 2k. And again, what is the true best practice for optimum life?
 
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