Honda MTF 55640 Miles, 2000 Honda Insight

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Two weekends ago, I changed out the manual transmission fluid on my 2000 Insight. I'm not the original owner, so I don't know if the MTF has ever been changed. But it has 56,000 miles on the odometer, and I know that I've never changed the MTF after having purchased the Insight with 23,000 miles on the odometer. So, at a minimum, there is at least 32,000 miles on this MTF, if not many more. I replaced it with 1.6 quarts of new Honda MTF. Here are Blackstone's comments:
 Quote:
Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of manual transmission after about 15,500 miles on the oil. Wear metals are right around average even with at over double the miles, and that's a good sign that this unit has been well maintained. It's also likely that this oil was changed at least once since the car was new back in 2000. The viscosity read normal for Honda MTF, and no water was present either. There was a trace of insolubles (solids due to use and oxidation of oil), but these are negligible and nothing to worry about. All in all, a great report.
 Code:
MI/HR on Oil:	55,640
MI/HR on Unit:	55,640
Sample Date:	06/07/2009
Make Up Oil Added:	0 qts.

		Mine	Universal Average
Aluminum	7	5
Chromium	1	1
Iron		48	43
Copper		7	12
Lead		5	22
Tin		1	1
Molybdenum	38	9
Nickel		0	0
Manganese	2	1
Silver		0	0
Titanium	0	0
Potassium	5	2
Boron		23	24
Silicon		18	21
Sodium		155	25
Calcium		2125	2407
Magnesium	6	188
Phosphorus	844	1213
Zinc		945	1403
Barium		3	3

			Mine	Values Should Be
SUS Viscosity @ 210F	45.9	43-52
cSt Viscosity @ 100C	6.00	5.1-8.2
Flashpoint in F		400	>380
Fuel %			-
Antifreeze %		-
Water %			0.0	0.0
Insolubles		TR	<0.6
Cheers, Bryan
 
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Fluid loss ~40% of its visc. Scary. But, because of the massive power output, there is minimal wear on that transmission. Most people do not maintain manuals. So, at 23k, I doubt that it was ever changed. Looks good. Check back at 100k! Did you fill it with the new MTFII, or whatever they call it now?
 

ffxfina3

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 Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
The viscosity of this oil kinda looks like the new Honda MTF. What year did you buy the vehicle?
Thanks for the replies guys. I bought the car in July of 2007, so I've had it for almost 2 years. When I bought it, it was seven years old and had only 23,000 miles on it. In the last two years, I've added another 33,000 miles to it. The service manual says change it out every 120,000 miles or 6 years. So, given your comments about the viscosity, perhaps the original owner had the fluid changed in 2006, based upon time. Is the viscosity of the new Honda MTF thicker or thinner, compared to the old stuff? Cheers, Bryan
 

ffxfina3

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 Originally Posted By: unDummy
Fluid loss ~40% of its visc. Scary.
Can you please explain what you mean by this? If I understand Blackstone correctly, it was within spec.
 Originally Posted By: unDummy
Did you fill it with the new MTFII, or whatever they call it now?
Yes. 1.6 quarts of new Honda MTF. Cheers, Bryan
 
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Here is another UOA of Honda MTF. It's unclear whether it is the new or old MTF. The viscosity delta between this UOA and yours is what undummy is referring to for viscosity loss: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1222597 I have not seen a VOA of the new fluid, so virgin viscosity is virtually unknown (lots of "v's"). The last couple of times I've used it I thought to myself that it sure was thin for a gear oil. It leaked out of the suction hand pump I was using and soaked my arm I used to push the plunger with. I don't remember this happening with the old fluid or any other MTF.
 
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I think this UOA looks OK ... the shearing is about what I expected from this shear-prone fluid. This is the reason I used to use Red Line MTL in my '90 Integra and '95 Civic Coupe. More recently I use Amsoil MTF in my '06 Civic. But if those fluids were not available, I'd use Honda MTF without too much complaint ... except my perennial gripe about OEM fluids and filters. My guess is that Honda MTF II is thinner than the original ... it seems to be the way the industry is going. All else being equal, a thinner fluid provides easier shifting and greater fuel economy.
 
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Honda manuals used to take 30wt motor oil ~10cst. The movement toward MPG(SL/SM oils) added MPG improving friction modifiers and other additives that might've been unfriendly to shift quality. Notice how most motorcycle oils didn't jump on that bandwagon because those same MPG oils could assist with wet clutch slippage. From what I vaguely remember, the original MTF was just a 10w30(SH/SJ?) oil used to prevent using SL/SM motor oil. When the newer MTF was released 2-years ago, better protection and better all-weather performance was the end result. Honda bragged about better cold shiftability(5w30 or maybe 0w30) and less wear in the transmission(maybe more stable at higher temps, maybe it shears less now, maybe better additives). Its possibly just a better basestock with an additive packaged tailored to gear box protection. I want to believe that this is the factory fill. But, does anyone think that this is a synthetic 10w30 SM motor oil? With hybrid owners being MPG junkies, could it even be a 5w30 or 0w30 oil like Mobil1, or maybe a 5w20?? Moly/boron not in other Honda or Acura MTF UOAs! Had to be changed????????? BTW, hows this gas guzzler treating you at the pumps?
 

ffxfina3

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Thanks for the replies everybody. I'm glad I had MTF analyzed and I'll be even happier about it, the next time I do it.
 Originally Posted By: unDummy
With hybrid owners being MPG junkies, could it even be a 5w30 or 0w30 oil like Mobil1, or maybe a 5w20?? Moly/boron not in other Honda or Acura MTF UOAs!
...
 Originally Posted By: unDummy
BTW, hows this gas guzzler treating you at the pumps?
Interesting question(s). With 23,000 miles on the car when I purchased it, the lifetime MPG was 62.2MPG. I'm a serious "MPG junkie". With 56,000 miles on the odometer, I have raised the lifetime average to 69.3MPG. During the summer months, I average about 82MPG/tank. In the winter months (Iowa), my tank averages drop down to about 69MPG. Cheers, Bryan
 
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