Honda Manual Transmission Fluid

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Here is a VOA of Honda's MTF. Analysis performed by ANA labs. Titanium -0 Silver - 0 Copper - 0 Lead - 0 Tin - 0 Aluminum - 0 Nickel - 0 Iron - 0 Chromium - 0 Sodium - 0 Boron - 1 Silicon - 0 Water - 0 Soot - 0 Glycol - 0 Moly - 0 Magnesium - 11 Calcium - 2652 Barium - 0 Phosphorous - 1401 Zinc -1564 [email protected] - 11.26 Tan mg/g - 0.30 I should have a UOA of this fluid in another 4-6 months. -Joe [ May 22, 2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: joee12 ]
 
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Cool, I was pondering the thought of seeing a VOA of Honda MTF. My manual calls for Honda MTF or 10W-40 oil to use in the transmission. I switched to MTF and I notice 3rd gear does not grind any more during quick shifts. I hear that Honda MTF is part synthetic. Thanks for the VOA!
 
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Most Hondas (like my '95 Civic) called for a 10W30 motor oil (preferably SG or SF) in the tranny before they came out with MTF ... late 90s or 2000, I think. But that stuff is not even close to ideal for a syncromesh tranny. [Roll Eyes] This stuff looks like plain oil ... with a lot of calcium (detergent) and just a normalish-high amount of zinc and phosphorous. Suprised to see no boron. That's fairly disappointing, actually. [Frown] Did the lab give you a flashpoint? This might be a clue as to its base oil content ... Group III? PAO? Esters? There must be a lot of friction modifier in this stuff which isn't showing up ... unless it's in that calcium. For better shifting, they need to add something to make this goo less slippery. Gonna go with Red Line MTL next? It'd be supremely interesting to compare these two together. [Big Grin] I think 'Kule had a sample of MTL out of his Nissan truck's manual transmission. [stretch] --- Bror Jace
 

joee12

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quote:
Originally posted by joee12: Here is a VOA of Honda's MTF. Analysis performed by ANA labs. Titanium -0 Silver - 0 Copper - 0 Lead - 0 Tin - 0 Aluminum - 0 Nickel - 0 Iron - 0 Chromium - 0 Sodium - 0 Boron - 1 Silicon - 0 Water - 0 Soot - 0 Glycol - 0 Moly - 0 Magnesium - 11 Calcium - 2652 Barium - 0 Phosphorous - 1401 Zinc -1564 [email protected] - 11.26 Tan mg/g - 0.30 I should have a UOA of this fluid in another 4-6 months. -Joe
I am so impatient, that I went and purchased three new bottles of the Honda MTF today. I am changing the oil tomorrow after Rugerman drops off my Schaeffer's analysis kits. I just can't wait another six months. The sample will have 22,000 miles on it. -Joe
 
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i have a 2002 civic ex 5 speed, and was wondering what manual trans fluid would be better, the redline mtl or the honda mtf?
 
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HondaGuy, opinions vary. I like Red Line MTL a great deal ... especially in the cold. I've put the stuff in two cars which have collectively gone 300,000+ miles. Bogatyr (an occasional contributor here) holds an opinion similar to mine. But other Honda fans favor the Honda MTF and are distrustful of the Red Line stuff. They blame lost synchros, bearing failures, etc ... on the polyolester-heavy synthetic formula. [I dont know] --- Bror Jace
 

MolaKule

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Typical 5W30 MTF. Decent ZDDP levels but P could be higher. Try the Redline MTL/MT-90 50/50. Smooth as silk.
 
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money is no object in my book, i just want a fluid thats going to have the best protection while providing the best shifting. Another question is, should i drain my fluid out early(i don't plan to do this until maybe spring time), but should i change it out early say in like 5-6k miles more(I have 15k right now) instead of the factory recommended 60k for severe service?
 
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Well HondaGuy, in my opinion go with 100% MTL ... which Red Line says is a replacement for the 10W30 motor oil Honda used to spec for their syncromesh boxes. Cold weather (and it's a comin'!) shifting will be significantly improved. I used to change mine every 30,000 - 40,000 miles. I think your tranny requires 1.8 quarts ... but you'll want to double check that. --- Bror Jace
 
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Out of curiosity, how hard is it to change fluid out of a manual tranny(im used to doing oil, how much different is it with doing tranny oil)?
 

mph

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quote:
Originally posted by HOndaGuy: Out of curiosity, how hard is it to change fluid out of a manual tranny(im used to doing oil, how much different is it with doing tranny oil)?
It's easy (as long as the bolts aren't seized). You remove the fill plug first, so that you're sure that you can get it out before you drain the oil. Then you remove the drain plug and let the oil drain. Then you replace the drain plug, and put oil in the fill hole until it starts to run out. Replace the fill plug and you're done. You're supposed to use new crush washers on the bolts, just as with the engine oil drain plug. Here is a picture (courtesy of the famous Mista Bone) showing the plug locations on a typical Civic tranny.  -
 

MolaKule

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don't you just love the 3/8" and 1/2" sockets. My Nissans have those square sockets on everything. Leaves me no excuse for changing fluids often.
 

Jay

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Most of the RSX owners who have tried Redline MTL reported more transmission noise with it. Their transmissions shifted very well but were quieter with the Honda fluid. [ October 07, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]
 
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Jay, MTL is awful thin. My trannies were very quiet with it but if others report noise, maybe they should go with a blend of MTL and MT-90? --- Bror Jace
 
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mph, I don't know much about newer Civic trannys but I have a question that I can't figure out from the pic. I see the drain bolt and the fill plug but isn't there another fill hole? It's my understanding that the one in the pic is where the oil runs out when it's full enough. I can't see under the intake box but is there a fill hole on top of the tranny? The backup light sensor looks like it would work as a fill location. 28mm deep socket I believe. I'm asking because I have an 03 Civic and I need to change the fluid.
 

mph

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quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy: I see the drain bolt and the fill plug but isn't there another fill hole? It's my understanding that the one in the pic is where the oil runs out when it's full enough.
Just fill it using the indicated fill hole. There is no other hole intended for this purpose. Attach a hose to a funnel so that you can position the funnel above the car with the hose in the fill hole, or use a fluid transfer pump/siphon. Some people do fill it using the backup light switch on the top. Either you need to remove the proper fill plug anyway (and then what's the point?) or you risk over- or under-filling it. I know of someone with a Miata having the backup light switch break off inside the tranny because the mechanic used this method and forgot to replace the washer under the switch. [freaknout] The proper fill hole, shown on the picture, is all you need and is how the factory service manual says to do it. If I can get the oil in that way, anybody can! [Big Grin]
 
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