Honda Japan Oil Spec.

[Henry]

I hadn't checked for a year or so, so I took a look at the Honda Japan Digital Owner's manual for the Accord. [URL=http://www.honda.co.jp/manual/accord/2003/servicedata/02.html][/URL] It's mostly unreadable, but if you scroll down you can see that they would seem to be allowing viscosities up to 5w-40 in Japan for the 2.4 litre engine. So it goes. Henry

 

[cangreylegend]

I think they allow the customer to make a choice of whether they prefer environmental considerations - thereby using the 0w-20 etc. Their "gold" is the performance preference. That's 5w-40. Notice that the performance engines do not lean towards economy at all. Witness the RSX vs RSX-S debate ot 5w-20 and 5w-30 recommendations.

 

[CJH]

While I am glad you brought it up, this is hardly news. There have been many postings on here about the exact same cars / engines in other countries specifying heavier oils. It is the US CAFE regulations that drive the recommendations rather than technical considerations. In spite of this obvious fact, there are lots of people on this board touting how great 5W20 is and how it is better than XW30. They are sheep.

quote:

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Originally posted by Henry: I hadn't checked for a year or so, so I took a look at the Honda Japan Digital Owner's manual for the Accord. [URL=http://www.honda.co.jp/manual/accord/2003/servicedata/02.html][/URL] It's mostly unreadable, but if you scroll down you can see that they would seem to be allowing viscosities up to 5w-40 in Japan for the 2.4 litre engine. So it goes. Henry

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[SPITMAN]

It is the US CAFE regulations that drive the recommendations rather than technical considerations. In spite of this obvious fact, there are lots of people on this board touting how great 5W20 is and how it is better than XW30. They are sheep. BBBBBB AAAAAHHHHH

 

[Whimsey]

Gee, I hope were not sheep being led to the slaughter . Whimsey

 

[jthorner]

Great. This means that once I used up my supply of 5W-20 (one more oil change worth) I can switch the '03 Accord to 5W-30 without fear. This is the same oil spec as our '02 Oldsmobile calls for and simplifies my life. Our No. Cal. climate is one of the mildest on earth, so I need not worry about a winter weight oil. Being pragmatic, I will first use up the Pennzoil "Synthetic" 5W-30 I bought 15 quarts of at our recent K-mart going out of business sale. Thanks to this board I am now aware of the heated controversy over the definition of synthetic oil, but just the same I'm sure this is decent stuff to use. After that, it looks like either Mobil-1 or the mythical German Castrol are good bets for high quality motor oils. I'm looking for decent performance with readily available supplies. Somehow I'm just not ready to mail order special oils for my cars . How does one know if a given both of Castrol Syntec is "German" or pseudo-synthetic 'merican stuff? John

 

[Sin City]

jthorner, you will know you have the German Syntec 0W-30 if it says ACEA A3/B3 on the back of the bottle or if it says made in Germany. The older 0W-30 Castrol Syntec will say ACEA A1/B1 and is produced in the USA. Also some of the newer specs for Mercedes and BMW oil are listed on the back of the German Syntec.

 

[Henry]

What I found most interesting is that Honda Japan does not even show an xw-20 as an option for the 2.4 litre engines, which were introduced in the 03 US models. Now, in the US, those engines show 5w-20 as the ONLY acceptable oil. And in Japan 10w-30 is shown as fine down to -20C. Henry

 

[Eiron]

This excerpt from the July 2, 2003, email issue of Lube Report may explain why they don't spec xW-20 oil where CAFE isn't a consideration:

quote:

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The Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association, a founding member of ILSAC, says testing has shown “that both viscosity and phosphorus content affect timing-chain wear. For SAE 5W-20 oils, less than 0.06 percent secondary phosphorus ZnDTP does not provide adequate chain-wear protection.” To combat this wear, JAMA and ILSAC are proposing that GF-4 contain a minimum of 0.06 percent phosphorus; JAMA might also develop a chain-wear test for GF-5 when work begins on that oil category. Meanwhile, API, which represents oil companies, doesn't want any minimum set on phosphorus content.

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[JohnBrowning]

finaly the truth comes out!!! I knew given enough time we would find a major draw back to 5W20! So I hope all of the Ford crowd with timeing chain problems on their modular V8's are reading you post Eiron!!

 

[Whimsey]

JohnBrowning, While I respect your opinions and knowledge, as demonstrated in past posts, I think that you may be letting your bias against 5W-20 show through. If you read the whole article it explains that the problem the JAMA was describing occurs in direct injection spark ignition engines at 1% soot levels. At this time no such engines are sold in North America according to the article. The current GF-3 standards are for ALL SL rated oils, whether 5W-20, 5W-30 or 10W-30, have a maximum of .10 % phosphous. Originally it was supposed to be 08% but it was dropped for concerns of engine wear. So in exchange the NOAK maximum was reduced from 22% to 15% maximum. Of course what happens to the GF-4 oils is yet to be determined. But whatever it is it will apply to the 5&10W-30's as well as the 5W-20's. Whimsey

 

[Eiron]

Whimsey, It's really too bad the article doesn't actually link to the JAMA tests being referenced. Do you know of any links to the tests? It seems to be a case of a group of manufacturers wanting enough product protection, versus an oil company not wanting to provide it due to marketing issues. I mean, the Shell rep admits he's not an engineer, & then summarizes his interpretation of the tests. Sorry, but I'll have to side with JAMA on this one. You're right, GF-3 does allow for the minimum phosphorus amount JAMA wants, but if they approve xW-20 oils now, then the owners of those vehicles will be "stuck" using GF-4 oils when they replace the current specs. (Because you won't have a choice at that point, right? GF-4 will replace GF-3, & all ILSAC-approved xW-20 oils from that point on will have sub-optimal phosphorus levels.) Keep in mind JAMA said, “that both viscosity and phosphorus content affect timing-chain wear." So lower phosphorus doesn't appear to be a concern for the xW-30 wts.