Honda dealer balks at Motorcraft Oil (5w-20)

ebc

Messages
79
Location
Kingsport, TN
Greetings, When I scheduled our Pilot for an oil change, I mentioned that I was bringing my own oil this time. They strongly discouraged the Motorcraft brand in favor of Valvoline All-Climate in the 5w-20 grade stating that: "Valvoline is the best oil unless you want to use M1". Not surprisingly, Valvoline is the house brand. Where can I find the database of UOA's? I want to challenge their claim with some facts. Thanks, EBC
 
Messages
2,556
Location
Columbus Ohio
Simply check the UOA section. I don't know if any valvoline 5w20 UOA's have been posted though. The motorcraft looks pretty good from what I have seen. In fact, most of the 5w20's look good so far. [Smile]
 
Messages
4,478
Location
Southern California
Just use the "Search" function on the BITOG home page. It's directly beneath "BOBISTHEOILGUY", third from the left. Once in, direct your inquiry to the UOA forum. Your dealer's service writer or manager is obviously full of the stinky stuff. If he/they persist in their delusion that Valvoline is the only recommended motor oil for late model Hondas, point out that under Moss-Magnusen, they'll have to GIVE it to you. BTW - "Motorcraft" motor oil is made by Phillips-Conoco I believe.
 

ebc

Thread starter
Messages
79
Location
Kingsport, TN
Hello again, Thanks for the help. I am tempted to bring some Redline just to see their reaction, (I'll bet they never heard of it). They are a great dealership to work with, but I dont agree with the their choice of house oil. If they switched to brand x, they would then tout that brand as the world's best. I told them they should read this site. Later, ebc
 
Messages
4,632
Location
The Garden State
The Motorcraft 5W-20 not only meets but exceeds the Honda requirements. In fact any oil that meets Ford's 5W-20 requirements exceeds Honda's 5W-20 requirements. Your dealer probably has the Valvoline in bulk and wants to push it. But if you bring your own oil in they should give you at least $1.00/quart credit if they charge a flat price for the oil change service, including them supplying the oil and oil filter. While the Valvoline All Climate might be OK, the Motorcraft 5W-20 has proven itself in a variety of difficult uses. Your service department is pushing the dealer's service mantra for perceived profit maximization. You do what's best for your needs, not the dealer's. There are several fine 5W-20 oils that meet Honda's spec's and Motorcraft is one of them. You just need to educate your dealer about what you feel is best for you and not them. Whimsey
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
Your dealer is an idiot. Valvoline consistently posts the worst UOAs on this board, and I doubt their 5w20 will be any different. On the other hand, Motorcraft 5w20 has posted some the best UOAs seen on this board. Tell your dealer that if he wants to pay for the oil change, then he can put the oil he "likes" in the engine, but as long as you're paying for it, you want the Motorcraft. (I personally would find someone else to do my oil changes, or do it myself—which is what I do, BTW.)
 
Messages
14
Location
los angeles
I was just w/ some owners of RX-8's. Some of them had enough mileage on them for their 1st oil services. I forget which stealership they went to ( in Orange County, CA) but the stealership REFUSED to put in the oil weight required in the manual (10w-20) and told the owner that they will only put in 10w-30. It's probably not that big a deal, but to refuse????I'm privvy to quite a bit of tech data on the rotary engine and thats not what I've seen thus far regarding the new Renesis as far as dealer bulletins and such. Just thought it strange to refuse in such a flat out manner. [Confused]
 
Messages
625
Location
Silver Spring, MD (USA)
Its just stealership bs. Alot of mazda owners also don't realize that each dealership is REQUIRED to provide a loaner (they're supposed to offer one) if your car is in the shop for warranty work. I've seen some dealerships on the mazda6 boards flat out refuse to give people loaners. Of course, most individuals just grumble and don't do anything about it...the dealer wins 95% of the time by doing this...most people won't even challenge it. Of course the other 5% pull out their cell phones and start calling mazda...changes the dealer's note really fast. Always keep the contact #'s in your manual handy if your not DIY'in...they come in real handy with dealing with shady dealerships.
 
Messages
6,388
Location
Washington St.
quote:
Originally posted by revn247: I was just w/ some owners of RX-8's. Some of them had enough mileage on them for their 1st oil services. I forget which stealership they went to ( in Orange County, CA) but the stealership REFUSED to put in the oil weight required in the manual (10w-20) and told the owner that they will only put in 10w-30. It's probably not that big a deal, but to refuse????I'm privvy to quite a bit of tech data on the rotary engine and thats not what I've seen thus far regarding the new Renesis as far as dealer bulletins and such. Just thought it strange to refuse in such a flat out manner. [Confused]
10W-20??? Did the dealership refuse to install owner-supplied oil, or refuse to install oil he didn't have in stock anyway? Ken
 

TC

Messages
1,644
Location
California
This would be an easy one if you could simply compare the manufacturers' oil spec sheets and show the dealer you have the numbers to back you up. But Motorcraft doesn't (or at least didn't a few months back) offer a current spec sheet on their conventional oils -- the dumb thing still refers to "SJ" oil. Hopefully this is Motorcraft's New Year's resolution -- to check their own website more than once every couple years...
 

TC

Messages
1,644
Location
California
Since Motorcraft's oil webpage is useless, on the ASSUMPTION that Motorcraft 5w-20 is simply repackaged Conoco Hydroclear 5w-20, here's the Conoco spec sheet: http://lubes.conoco.com/techdata/englishtechdatasheetpdfs/Conoco%20Super%20All%20Season%20Motor%20Oil%20SAE%205W-20.pdf Valvoline's All Climate 5w-20 spec sheet can be accessed here: http://www.valvoline-technology.com/data/valv/valvtechnology.nsf/fsValvoline?OpenFrameSet Union 76 and Kendall GT-1 are sister oils to Conoco, but not necessarily exactly the same. Their spec sheets can be found here: http://www.conocophillips.com/products/products.asp Comparing several basic facets of their spec sheets (Conoco's sheet is brief): Valvoline Flash Point: 428F Conoco FP: 435F Valvoline Pour Point: -38F Conoco PP: -49F Valvoline Viscosity Index: 157 Conoco VI: 147 Valvoline Total Base Number: 8.0 Conoco TBN: Not listed Conoco TBN per VOA: 4.6 "New method" (see * below) Kendall TBN: 7.4 Union 76 TBN: 8.0 *Conoco VOA link: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000118 Valvoline VOA link: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000101 Based strictly on this limited spec sheet info, and without looking into UOAs (these are often vehicle-specific), Conoco appears to be superior at temperature extremes, although Valvoline keeps its viscosity significantly better, a factor in limiting wear.
 
Messages
11,284
Location
Spring HIll
quote:
Originally posted by TC: Since Motorcraft's oil webpage is useless, on the ASSUMPTION that Motorcraft 5w-20 is simply repackaged Conoco Hydroclear 5w-20,
It is repackaged Conoco, I called and asked them a couple months ago.
 

ebc

Thread starter
Messages
79
Location
Kingsport, TN
Good morning, Perhaps I mis-stated the original post. They did not refuse to use the oil, they just discouraged any oil but Valvoline or M1. Since the oil meets all specs, they dont have a choice as far as warranty is concerned. I just wanted some data to support my preference. I get irritated at dealers who throw a sales pitch with no real data to support it. Thanks again, ebc
 
Messages
555
Location
south texas border
Are you guys sure Motorcraft is specd the same way as conoco oil? The last specs I say for motorcraft (last year) showed a vi of 161 and flash of 360 and a little bit. Might be the same oil but me thinks its been massaged a little. can anyone verify?
 
Messages
11
Location
Virginia
Just to set the record straight, the Mazda RX-8 specifies 5W20 oil. I did my first oil change using the Motorcraft 5W20 oil - in spite of all the cautions about using synthetic, or synthetic blended oil in this case, in a rotary engine. The owner's manual does not tell you not to use synthetic oil - only SL rated 5W20 oil. Bob
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by dustyjoe1: Are you guys sure Motorcraft is specd the same way as conoco oil? The last specs I say for motorcraft (last year) showed a vi of 161 and flash of 360 and a little bit. Might be the same oil but me thinks its been massaged a little. can anyone verify?
I've talked directly with someone at Conoco and he assured me that Motorcraft PCMO oil (in all grades) is nothing but relabeled Conoco Hydroclear.
 
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