I have just had a discussion with the my Honda service department about leaving the orginal oil in until after 5000 miles. Third time I have had this discussion. They are adamant about leaving it in until it is over 5000 miles.
The V6 severe change interval is 3750 and they still insist on 5000. It is hard to figure why they don't want my money.
My question is does anyone know where Honda gets their information on why this is best?
Honda break-in oil
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Patman
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FWIW, I changed out the factory fill oil in my wife's 2000 Civic long before it even had 2000 miles on it, and to this day (with 43k on it) it does not burn oil at all (in a 5k interval the dipstick level does not change)
[ May 09, 2003, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
I finally registered, thanks for the all the great info.
My 2003 Accord 5 speeder (manual), had oil change at 1000 mile at a Honda dealer.
Service rep inisted going longer but I said to apply short severe driving with 6 month old rule. This car sat in the lot for 5 month before I bought it, nobody wanted manual.
I just followed the owners manual when I bought my 2000 Civic Si...I drive 50 miles to work each way, so I am on the normal schedule. Changed the oil at 7,500 miles. If you are on the more rigorous schedule, change it at 3,750 miles. Why else would you do it any other way than what Honda recommends?
Honda uses a special break-in oil with lots of moly. If the dealer wants you to wait until 5,000 miles, there's no harm in doing that.
How severe is your driving?
In my Accord manual, Honda worded their criteria differently than other manufacturers, it's worded something like this:
Your conditions are severe only if most of your driving involves the following:
-towing
-short trips
-taxi cab or delivery service
-extensive idling
-extremely dusty conditions
-etc
So if these occur only occasionally then it's not severe.
Check your manual--does your driving fall under their criteria for severe service?
Jason
Patman
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quote:I never bothered with Honda's recommendations, they call for 6000km oil changes up here on all Canadian Hondas, but soon after we got this car I started doing 10000km oil changes. I'd still be going that long if it weren't for the fact that my wife only does about 1000km per month now, so I only take it to about 8000km for the warm months, and 4000-5000km for the cold months now.
Originally posted by CJH: I just followed the owners manual when I bought my 2000 Civic Si...I drive 50 miles to work each way, so I am on the normal schedule. Changed the oil at 7,500 miles. If you are on the more rigorous schedule, change it at 3,750 miles. Why else would you do it any other way than what Honda recommends?
Were is the VOA of Honda oil to prove that it is not OTC oil. The only company that I am aware of that has gone on record as useing a private blend for break in is Audi. The rest especial the Domestic brands all quite doing this years ago. GM used to have a ZDDP additvie but they quite useing it claiming that it was killing cat. converters. I really doubt that Honda is useing a private blend for break in. Seeing how all engineers know that 98% of the aaccelerated wear in an engine is done in 600-1000 miles what would be the point of a 5000 mile oil. The first 20 minutes are the hardest on the engine. Why would anyone want to keep oil full of high levels of iron, aluminum and copper in their engine. Most engine remanufactures require the first oil and filter change withing 500 miles of installing their engine. I usualy change out my oil at 600 miles and switch to snthetic.
quote:You should see how the longshoremen drive the cars when they're loading the car carrier ships
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: ..... The first 20 minutes are the hardest on the engine. .....
![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon}
Especially in Japan they're often young and drive like they're in the Harbor Grand Prix!
Ken
[ May 10, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Ken2 ]Honda's factory fill oil is a special blend, probably made for them by a brand name company but specially blended to add a ton of moly. There have been several VOA's on this oil, it is clearly a special blend.
Even their bottled Honda oil has been tested to contain high amounts of moly.
I don't know about Audi, but Honda's been doing this special factory fill for many years.
I personally have changed mine out at 1000 miles, I like to get the metal filings out. I think Honda tells people to go a certain amount of miles so that they can get standardized information about how their vehicles wear. Having the majority of their vehicles break in the same manner probably helps them monitor wear problems over time. Also there is a huge push within the industry to keep operating costs in the first 2-3 years as low as possible. This is a big mareketing ploy to help sales if you can tell your customer that the first 2-3 years of operating costs are lower on your vehicle compared to the competition's. And vice versa, if your costs are higher that may hurt sales. All consumer testing auto mags list operating costs for vehicles on long term tests. I think it's useless info but it must attract some people.
Joey
Ken I was a Tech. for 12 years and I currently work for a large automotive company as a tech. consultant. I can tell you that the UAW boys drive the pi$$ out of those cars getting them from the line to the parking area wateing to be shipped out via rail. You would think that you were watching a World Rally Championship!! That still does not change the fact that the first 20 minutes are the hardest. It amazes me that they do not all burn oil.
quote:Member troy_heagy posted my Acura RSX analysis with the factory-fill oil: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000078#000000 In the USA Honda oil is made by ExxonMobil and I suspect that it's Mobil Drive Clean. The factory-fill oil may also be Mobil Drive Clean with a big dose of moly. Unfortunately, we don't have a VOA or UOA of MDC 5w-20 to compare with. [ May 10, 2003, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: Were is the VOA of Honda oil to prove that it is not OTC oil...
On my other vehicles, both past and present, I have always done my first oil change before 1000 miles. I can even remember back when break in oil was a single weight non deterget oil and the first change was at 20 to 30 minutes.
My last two new vehicles, a 99 Ford diesel and this 03 Honda, have both recommended leaving break-in oil in. But the Honda they are adamamt about this 5000 miles. Everything I have read says that most break in occures in just a short period. So does anyone know what has Honda seen different?
If it was money it would seem they would love to take a little of my money but they are telling me to go away. It makes me wonder what Honda knows.
It is kind of fun for me so I have spent a bit of time breaking-in this one in with my latest ideas but this oil change milage has me confused. I will probably wait until 5000 as I don't think it will actually hurt anything but I am still curious as the the long first change.
Cylinder bores are made out of such widely varying materials these days that a one-size-fits-all approach to break-in doesn't work. Honda alone uses steel, graphite composite, and nikasil cylinder bores in their engines, and each material requires a different break-in procedure. If you know better than the engineers who are familiar with the materials and their wear-in characteristics then feel free to disregard their advice.
That makes sense, plus the fact that clutches and transmissions are also in the equation for bikes.
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: Cylinder bores are made out of such widely varying materials these days that a one-size-fits-all approach to break-in doesn't work. Honda alone uses steel, graphite composite, and nikasil cylinder bores in their engines, and each material requires a different break-in procedure. If you know better than the engineers who are familiar with the materials and their wear-in characteristics then feel free to disregard their advice.
Jay,
That is what I am thinking and so will probably just let it go until 5000 and quit worrying about it.
I am going to run the break in oil in my Honda about 4,000 miles, then run Pennzoil 5w-20 the next 4,000 and switch to Mobil 1 0w-20 or 5w-30 thereafter.
I was purchasing Mobil 1 0w-40 for my Passat today at Autozone and I asked them if they have 0w-20 (which they didn't). The store manager told me that there is a bulletin that people should not use 5w-20 and it is only useed for fuel economy by the manufacturer and I should use 5w-30 instead. What should I use for my Honda's first oil change???
Dani
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