Honda 0W-20 & VSOT, 4267mi, 2006 Civic Hybrid 1.3L

[UzLess]

First, the numbers [via Blackstone]:

First numbers are Honda 0W-20 w/ 3oz VSOT, second are factory fill [from Suzuka] also 0W-20, third are univ. avg...

xxxxxx / 8313mi / 4046mi
Date / Jun 6, 06 / Mar 25, 06
Al / 3 / 8 / 6
Cr / 0 / 1 / 1
Fe / 10 / 20 / 11
Cu / 2 / 7 / 5
Pb / 0 / 0 / 1
Sn / 0 / 0 / 0
Moly /734/543/144
Ni / 0 / 0 / 0
Mn / 1 / 3 / 0
Ag / 0 / 0 / 0
Ti / 0 / 0 / 0
B / 89 /184 / 63
Si / 26 / 76/ 14
Na / 7 / 10 / 12
Ca /1651/1623/2519
Mg / 74 / 15 / 50
P / 671 / 620 / 789
Zn / 808 / 685 / 947
Ba / 1 / 6 / 0

Viscosity 50.6 / 47.6 / s/b 46-59
Flash 360 / 305 / s/b > 385
Fuel% 1.3 / 4 / s/b < 2.0
Antifreeze & Water - zero on both samples
Insolubles 0.3 / 0.3 / s/b < 0.6

TBN was 3.2 on the first sample, I didn't bother with the 2nd, given the similar mileage.

Bstone notes on this sample noted the fuel dilute, said it was from ring seating and should clear up.

On the first sample, they said the oil sheared down to about a -10 weight. I'd guess due to the fuel dilute, and I *may* not have warmed up the engine enough before taking the sample.

When I read the first report, I was really worried about the shear, and to a lesser extent about the 20ppm of iron, as I'd never seen anything close to that level on my V6 Accords. Those first 1000mi were in cold January temps, as well

But I was just as happy on the other end of the spectrum when I got this last report. At least I *think* I should be. And I'd like to thank all the BITOGers who suggested the VSOT in various posts.

Looking at the Moly, Phosphorus, and Zinc, along with these wear levels, can I say I've found my 'magic bullet', as someone else once suggested when they found a good application ? Or is it too early yet to say that ?

I've tended to use M1 in the past, but given these results, I'm tempted to keep with the Honda labeled stuff - it's priced similarly, and it would only help, if any warranty issues arise - doubt they would, however.

Do I need to worry about the cat. conv., with these levels of P and Zn ? I've read they were lowered in the SL formulations for this purpose, not sure about the SM spec ?

My driving - 80% suburban, 30-45mph, 20% interstate 55-65mph. Engine generally never sees above 2500rpm, and I get 50-65mpg driving efficiently - that's a main purpose of having this type of vehicle, after all.

I didn't 'cook' / mix the VSOT prior to putting it in the 2nd oil; however, I did so with what's in the sump now - M1 0W-20. Put 3oz of VSOT in a carrier of M1 in the microwave for 10-15sec at a time until it felt just slightly warm. Mixing tips going forward would be appreciated.

One thing I noticed on the initial start-up with the M1 - the valvetrain was noisy for the first 2-3 seconds. Didn't happen with the Honda oil. Only happened with the 1st start. Neither the owner's or service manuals suggest pre-filling the new filter; I'm guessing it might have alleviated the noise

Sump holds 3.4 qts w/ filter change - I run 0.5qt low, again to help mileage; this Honda, as is usual, uses zero oil between changes. I do check it every 1000mi or so, and the level is steady as a rock midway between the add / fill marks.

Filters used are OEM Honda. I will probably stick with them until end of warranty; they seem good enough for this application, given the results ? In time, I'll probably start using PureOne.

Intent is to keep this car for the long haul; I'm very pleased with it so far.

Suggestions appreciated. Thanks for reading

 

[TooSlick]

Too much moly can cause corrosive wear and make the oil less stable over time. I'd leave the VSOT out the next time around and you'll see results that are at least as good. What you're seeing here is the wear rates dropping as the engine is breaking in and nothing else.

TS

 

[Triple_Se7en]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Too much moly can cause corrosive wear and make the oil less stable over time. I'd leave the VSOT out the next time around and you'll see results that are at least as good. What you're seeing here is the wear rates dropping as the engine is breaking in and nothing else.

TS

---

Then why does Valvoline (Ashland) suggest using the whole bottle (15 oz) of VSOT???

 

[Pablo]

Yes time is the key with UOA's it will be cool to see the M1.

You could try the Amsoil XLM 5W-20. That's what I'm running the 2006 Odyssey.

I can see your fascination with Mo!

 

[The Critic]

0w20 is recommended, though.

Fwiw, local Toyota dealer has 0w20 on sale for $3.99/qt, as the 07 Camry 4-cyls now recommend it.

 

[Pablo]

Oh yeah, 0W-20 - my bad. Sorry.

Mike - who makes the Toyota 0W-20?

 

[The Critic]

No clue, not in the mood of finding out today, either.

I thought ExxonMobil has the contract for blending Toyota branded motor oils...possibly them?

At $3.99/qt, it's a steal for those who could use it.

 

[Pablo]

Great report. I'm just not willing to say with all (100%) certainty the VSOT made the difference. Do you have a control to compare it to?

 

[UzLess]

No. The closest thing would be the factory fill; Honda has XOM doctor it up with extra moly, as you probably know. And that's not a real 'control' - I readily acknowledge that.

I have M1 + VSOT in the car now qt>, so we'll see what happens in a couple of months with that. What surprised me was how close Mg, P, and Zn was to the factory fill, and how quickly the wear dropped - the car only had 8300mi on it when I took that sample.

I know if I use M1 alone, it'll have < 100ppm of Mo, and the bottled Honda oil contains > 200ppm, from VOAs I've seen. So I figured bringing it up with the M1+VSOT brew would be fine, as others have done; then I saw the results of the Honda oil I did the first change with and thought I might be on to something.

I put it in that change because I knew the factory fill contained the extra Mo and I wanted to replicate the chemistry of the factory fill, given that Honda screams not to change it out quickly. But given my experience with what I've seen of the initial break-in interval with their engines , I changed it a little earlier than they would have approved of. I wanted to change it at 2200, but held off, partially because of the cold ambient temps at the time.

I'd try Amsoil, but the car is calling for ~ 7500mi changes, per it's 'maintenance minder'. I want to try Amsoil with an extended drain of *minimum* 10K miles - anything less than that would be a waste of the oil, IMO. While the car's still under warranty, that's not feasible for me, I'm afraid.

Sometime after 50K, I'll get some Amsoil and try it. Won't be for about 2.5yrs, though