HM from the start?

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3,633
Location
St. Charles County, Missouri
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I've run lots of trucks to 250K plus miles on regular Dino oil No HM stuff So I personally think it's a waste of money
Think Daily Protection and Max Life are the same price at Wally. if so, Max has the better conditioners and add pack so I'd get it, if also pay a few bucks extra for an oil change but not the times as much.
 
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5,181
Location
NJ
Originally Posted by RyanY
Originally Posted by csandste
Used on low mileage cars and switched back and forth. Don't think it makes much difference. Mostly marketing hype although there might be raised conditioners, that's not the same as swellers. Can't change my own oil. Used to have coupons for $10 extra for MaxLife, now it's three or four times as much. Back to VWB with no probs.
Whoa! The oil change places actually charge that much more for HM? Apparently I'm in the wrong business, especially since the retail cost of HM oil is only about $1 more than regular for a 5qt jug. Regardless, both my cars have also gone back and forth between HM and non-HM in both Valvoline and Pennzoil flavors with no problems. I therefore don't foresee any problems using HM oil from day 1 (although I didn't start using HM until 49k in one of my cars. I bought the other car used, so no idea what the PO put in
Yup. My old Rav4 started to seep out the cam seal and RMS around 240,000 miles. My wife took it to the quick lube place every 5000 miles and paid like $20 for an oil change. The next time she went, they put in HM oil and it cost about $40 or $50 for the oil change. That's when we stopped going to the quick lube place and I started to change it myself. Some folks on here said the price increase was due to the quick lube place using regular bulk oil they can get a lot cheaper than the HM oil they purchase in smaller quantities.
 
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3,633
Location
St. Charles County, Missouri
Cheapest Wally syn oil change is mid thirties ST HM. Still 70 percent more than $20 QS oil change but closer than any other. My oil change place costs me $10 plus disposal fees for VWB which is billed as conventional. Blend is high mileage only. You get it whether you need it or not.
 
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2,242
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GoVols
Originally Posted by csandste
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I've run lots of trucks to 250K plus miles on regular Dino oil No HM stuff So I personally think it's a waste of money
Think Daily Protection and Max Life are the same price at Wally. if so, Max has the better conditioners and add pack so I'd get it, if also pay a few bucks extra for an oil change but not the times as much.
How do you know that Max has a higher level of conditioners ? How do you measure that ?
 
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1,920
Location
Cincinnati, USA
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Dave9
Don't. Seal swellers (dubiously called conditioners) are meant to increase the size of the seal to make up for wear, while necessarily decreasing its density so it wears that much faster. Using one then switching back to non-HM oil can make the leak worse than if you'd never used it. If this was beneficial for new engines, it wouldn't be called high mileage oil, but consider that engines now last a long longer than they used to. 75K miles decades ago is more like double that today. I'd never use it at any engine mileageunless I had unacceptable oil loss and as a last ditch effort to keep it running a bit longer while I contemplated what to do next (unless it was a rarely used vehicle).
That's hogwash..if anything you said was true, oil mfgs would have to slap a big RED warning sign on HiMi bottles to CYA themselves.
Why would they do that? You think they'd be liable for your seals wearing and then needing their oil more than ever? That's what they want, and no customer is going to be able to prove that their sample size of one, wasn't just normal engine wear that wouldn't have otherwise happened.
Quote
Anecdotally, I've got nearly 170k miles on my engine and from day one I've switched back and forth from HiMi to vanilla. In fact I've got RGT in the sump right now and prior to that I ran Havoline HiMi syn blend and prior to that Kendall GT1 and after this run of RGT I plan on using M1 HiMi. I guess I should expect my engine seals to grenade any day now according to you! LOL..oh, and at 170k miles of going back and forth, I don't burn a lick of oil that I can discern between oil changes. 5.5 goes in.. and 5k miles later apprx 5.5 comes out.
You're correct, that it's anecdotal. The one constant is that seal swellers do nothing good for seals that don't need swollen to make a seal. Now about your sample size, maybe you start getting leaks at 200K mi but wouldn't have until 250K mi otherwise. It's no great feat to reach 170K with the last few generations of engines.
 
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3,633
Location
St. Charles County, Missouri
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by csandste
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I've run lots of trucks to 250K plus miles on regular Dino oil No HM stuff So I personally think it's a waste of money
Think Daily Protection and Max Life are the same price at Wally. if so, Max has the better conditioners and add pack so I'd get it, if also pay a few bucks extra for an oil change but not the times as much.
How do you know that Max has a higher level of conditioners ? How do you measure that ?
'Cause they say they do. I've never seen an actual measurement, with truth in advertising, I would think there'd have to be more seal conditioners. Whether that's three percent more or three hundred percent more is an interesting question. BTW-- My above quote should have been "three times as much". That's what happens when you attempt to answer with old, fat fingers on a smart phone.
 
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4,037
Location
WA
Originally Posted by Dave9
Why would they do that? You think they'd be liable for your seals wearing and then needing their oil more than ever? That's what they want, and no customer is going to be able to prove that their sample size of one, wasn't just normal engine wear that wouldn't have otherwise happened. - conspiracy theory alert! LOL You're correct, that it's anecdotal. The one constant is that seal swellers do nothing good for seals that don't need swollen to make a seal. Now about your sample size, maybe you start getting leaks at 200K mi but wouldn't have until 250K mi otherwise. It's no great feat to reach 170K with the last few generations of engines.
And they also do no harm. If you have some kind of science based evidence to show otherwise, I'm all ears. Otherwise your assertion is no more or less valid than my anecdote. And if I had to choose what to believe, I'm going with the claims made by reputable oil mfgs like Pennzoil, Valvoline and Chevron as opposed to non evidence based internet lore. And no, it's not an extraordinary feat in and of itself reaching that mileage but it was only worth mentioning because I did it using HiMi oils regularly and by all accounts (your account) the seals should have grenaded by now.
 
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4,037
Location
WA
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I've run lots of trucks to 250K plus miles on regular Dino oil No HM stuff So I personally think it's a waste of money
There's very little, if any, price difference if you do it yourself. Congrats on achieving such high mileage. 👍.. hard to do that without dedication to proper maintenance.
 
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Messages
2,107
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
That's hogwash..if anything you said was true, oil mfgs would have to slap a big RED warning sign on HiMi bottles to CYA themselves. Anecdotally, I've got nearly 170k miles on my engine and from day one I've switched back and forth from HiMi to vanilla. In fact I've got RGT in the sump right now and prior to that I ran Havoline HiMi syn blend and prior to that Kendall GT1 and after this run of RGT I plan on using M1 HiMi. I guess I should expect my engine seals to grenade any day now according to you! LOL..oh, and at 170k miles of going back and forth, I don't burn a lick of oil that I can discern between oil changes. 5.5 goes in.. and 5k miles later apprx 5.5 comes out.
I have had the same experience Mad_Hatter.
 
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13,251
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1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
If you are first and last owner of your new vehicle, leave the high mileage jugs at Walmart, unless issues arise as the vehicle ages. Someone should start a thread, asking for vehicle owners that have over 200K mileage since purchased new and have used high mileage oils exclusively, ever since the factory fill was emptied. Lets find out how those high mileage oil-seals are doing 10-15-20 years later.
 
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Messages
1,452
Location
California
Seals that are in good condition and not leaking do not need seal conditioners. If the engine has been maintained, and everything is in good shape, and not leaking or burning oil... there is no reason to use a HM oil, even if it has 200,000 miles or more. Just keep up on the regular maintenance using the recommended fluids until you have a good reason to change that. There are several tell-tale signs that your engine is getting worn and would benefit from a HM oil. I see NO REASON to use HM oil until one or more of these signs appears. My $0.02
 
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