Helping my parents get a Tesla

[y_p_w]

Unless they're going on long trips, a routine charge of 80% would be better. That way if they recover energy going down hill they stay well below 100%. Regenerative braking doesn't work at 100% (or maybe even close to 100% - don't know for sure) so the driving dynamics will become different. Effectively, the braking part of one pedal driving would be impaired.

I'm told you can set it up so the vehicle uses its actual brakes "automatically" at 100% charge so the driving dynamics stay the same - but you lose out on the energy being wasted and use the brakes a lot more than usual.

Yes it's because of the battery chemistry of the recent base models. The newer models should be charged to 100% at least once a week. Older base models (like mine) should rarely or never be charged to 100%. I've had mine charged to 100% exactly twice in almost 2 years, and to 90% a half dozen times. My range is still 395 km (down from just over 400) so my battery is holding up pretty well - which is not what a lot of people on Bob have been worrying about.

I've been trying to explain it to them, and I think they now understand regenerative braking and how it goes back to the battery. But the thing for them is that fiddling around with the settings is not something they like doing for anything. Not a car. Not a mobile device. Not a computer. But I think they'll let me adjust that for them.

I know there have been some recommendations to maybe go with something else. And certainly something with traditional mirror switches would be easier for them. However, there are apparently a lot of Model 3s being heavily discounted in inventory and my dad like the way it looks as well as the size. It's going to take a bit of handholding but I'd think the most important thing right now is that they can drive it and charge it. And I'm sure I'm going to get a few panicked calls like when my wife ran down her car battery and needed a jump.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Don't count on regenerative braking. If you go down one hill you are likely gonna go up another. As long as they drive less than 200 miles round trip they will be fine with home charging. But they should try out the supercharger. Your car is connected to a credit card. Just plug in an let her rip.

 

[y_p_w]

For the little bit of driving they do, supercharging is worthless. Plug it in at home and forget about it.

Using Tesla Superchargers might be their best option for a couple of weeks if my dad forgot to order the Mobile Connector and can't just buy one at delivery. And the real irony is that he was thinking of it and went so far as to have someone install 50A breakers and a 14-50 outlet.

I do find it odd that Tesla doesn't really recommend using Superchargers except for long trips. They've set up this extensive network and have (on and off) made charging free. I'm sure that many who get charging for free arrange their driving around it.

 

[The Critic]

I do find it odd that Tesla doesn't really recommend using Superchargers except for long trips. They've set up this extensive network and have (on and off) made charging free. I'm sure that many who get charging for free arrange their driving around it.

The rapid charging greatly accelerates battery deterioration. This is why L2 charging is the preferred method. Supercharging should only be used if L2 is not available.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Using Tesla Superchargers might be their best option for a couple of weeks if my dad forgot to order the Mobile Connector and can't just buy one at delivery. And the real irony is that he was thinking of it and went so far as to have someone install 50A breakers and a 14-50 outlet.

I do find it odd that Tesla doesn't really recommend using Superchargers except for long trips. They've set up this extensive network and have (on and off) made charging free. I'm sure that many who get charging for free arrange their driving around it.

Fast charging is hard on the battery.

 

[y_p_w]

The rapid charging greatly accelerates battery deterioration. This is why L2 charging is the preferred method. Supercharging should only be used if L2 is not available.

I understand that. But then again they've set up this extensive installed network of charging systems that provide at least 72 kW and seemingly encourage customers to use that (rather than home charging) by sometimes offering free charging. And the popular conception is that it's no worse for battery longevity than charging slowly at home.

I've been reading up on some Tesla owners who live in apartments or condos (or those without garages) where they can't connect their own power and just used the free Supercharging for life and haven't complained about excessive battery degradation.

There's some hints that these recommendations are about customer satisfaction, where discouraging customers from using these all the time will make them more likely available for those traveling long distances.

 

[y_p_w]

Man - they're a bit panicked now because they went to bank branch to get a cashier's check and somehow the teller persuaded them to add something (the city where they're picking it up) to the payable name. I can't find anything saying who the check should be made out to, although I'm thinking "Tesla" is probably enough. But adding something extraneous might be a problem. My dad said they're going right back to the bank to get a replacement.

I'm also looking at the delivery info in the Tesla app and it's not saying anything about anything other than adding a bank account (for the ACH payment I'm thinking), and that payment is due today for delivery tomorrow. I've been reading about how others made their payments at delivery and bringing a cashier's check is usually the way. The agreements can be approved though.

 

[The Critic]

I understand that. But then again they've set up this extensive installed network of charging systems that provide at least 72 kW and seemingly encourage customers to use that (rather than home charging) by sometimes offering free charging. And the popular conception is that it's no worse for battery longevity than charging slowly at home.

I've been reading up on some Tesla owners who live in apartments or condos (or those without garages) where they can't connect their own power and just used the free Supercharging for life and haven't complained about excessive battery degradation.

"excessive" is subjective - but academically, faster charge rates are inherently worse for battery degradation.

If your dad is going thru the trouble of establishing a circuit for L2 charging, I would go with the hardwire option and the wall connector. The mobile connector isn't really intended for reliable long-term charging, even Tesla recommend the wall connector. There have been numerous reports across varying brands, of these chargers failing when used repeatedly. Just one example:



Also, there seems to be some concern about the outlet. A commercial grade, such as the Hubbell HBL9450A is strongly recommended:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/universalmobileconnector_nema_14-50.pdf

 

[y_p_w]

"excessive" is subjective - but academically, faster charge rates are inherently worse for battery degradation.

If your dad is going thru the trouble of establishing a circuit for L2 charging, I would go with the hardwire option and the wall connector. The mobile connector isn't really intended for reliable long-term charging, even Tesla recommend the wall connector. There have been numerous reports across varying brands, of these chargers failing when used repeatedly. Just one example:



Also, there seems to be some concern about the outlet. A commercial grade, such as the Hubbell HBL9450A is strongly recommended:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/universalmobileconnector_nema_14-50.pdf

Yeah - I get all that. I participate in discussions on charging Apple devices and the talk about charge rate comes up quite often. So does the 20-80/40-80 rule although that's a massive pain to try to do when it's not automated and where it often makes sense to just use it while it's connected to external power, so it's not generally using the battery.

They're going to just try it. It's going to be tough getting them to do anything else after springing about $200 just to install this outlet and breaker. I think it would have been a tough sell getting my dad to spring $90 for just the outlet. This is what my dad got for the handyman to install along with a stainless steel wall plate.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...w-Single-Outlet-Black-R10-00279-S00/300324414

 

[The Critic]

$200 is stupid cheap for that type of work. Most people around here are spending $5-$10K for a 50A outlet or a hardwire install, primarily due to the need for a service upgrade or for a permitted secondary electrical panel.

Make sure the wire going to the outlet is of the correct size for the load.

 

[ecotourist]

It's going to be tough getting them to do anything else after springing about $200 just to install this outlet and breaker. I think it would have been a tough sell getting my dad to spring $90 for just the outlet. This is what my dad got for the handyman to install along with a stainless steel wall plate.

Cost me $500 Cdn (for parts and labour) and I thought I got a good deal. Installed by an electrician too.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yeah - I get all that. I participate in discussions on charging Apple devices and the talk about charge rate comes up quite often. So does the 20-80/40-80 rule although that's a massive pain to try to do when it's not automated and where it often makes sense to just use it while it's connected to external power, so it's not generally using the battery.

They're going to just try it. It's going to be tough getting them to do anything else after springing about $200 just to install this outlet and breaker. I think it would have been a tough sell getting my dad to spring $90 for just the outlet. This is what my dad got for the handyman to install along with a stainless steel wall plate.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...w-Single-Outlet-Black-R10-00279-S00/300324414

Please tell your folks to determine how they are gonna charge. This could turn out to be a nightmare. Does their service panel have room for a dedicated circuit? If not, you are talking thousands of dollars. Another possibility is an unused clothes dryer 220V recepticle.

I paid $600 all in for a union electrician to run 50' of #6 copper wire from the service panel to a NEMA 14-50 under the house to the garage. The wire alone was like $200 or more. And my service panel was already upgraded.

No offense, but you are making assumptions about EV ownership. Charging problems are the #1 reason EV owners go back to ICE.
I am not sure your family is ready for an EV; I hope I'm wrong.

 

[dogememe]

Yeah. At home.

This is where my parents usually get gas - Costco in Richmond, California. The real pain is the bottleneck to get in. And it's different with only two pumps on the far right which were added later.

Yeah I’ve been to that Costco a bunch of times. Layout of that parking lot sucks!

 

[y_p_w]

$200 is stupid cheap for that type of work. Most people around here are spending $5-$10K for a 50A outlet or a hardwire install, primarily due to the need for a service upgrade or for a permitted secondary electrical panel.

Make sure the wire going to the outlet is of the correct size for the load.

The guy isn't a licensed electrician, but apparently that's not required for handyman work in California under $500. It was also installed maybe 3 feet from the breaker, which is right in the back wall of the garage. I'm guessing it was $200, but my mom said that she paid him $150. Not sure if the cost of materials matters, but even then it was less than $500.

https://www.cslb.ca.gov/contractors..._application/Before_Applying_For_License.aspx

I was only guessing the materials were less than $50, which were all purchased at Home Depot by my dad. It included a plastic gang box, the outlet ($13), a breaker ($18) , and a square stainless steel plate. The cable was cut from a bulk spool and really short (less than 5 ft). Might be about $4 a foot? So maybe the materials were a bit more than $50?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton...w-Single-Outlet-Black-R10-00279-S00/300324414
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...e-Circuit-Breaker-HOM250CP-HOM250CP/202353323

I saw him doing a lot of the work. He installed a Square D 50+50 breaker and cabling that was an inch thick. The outlet is clearly rated for 50A although I suppose there are varying opinions on Leviton's quality.

 

[y_p_w]

Yeah I’ve been to that Costco a bunch of times. Layout of that parking lot sucks!

The gas stations are usually afterthoughts. I don't know if it's necessarily better or worse, but there are some that are located across the street or in some weird location away from the warehouse building. Even close to the warehouse can suck. The one in Sunnyvale has lines going through parking lot lanes. If you park there, have fun trying to get out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3713247,-121.9956519,139m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en&entry=ttu

I remember going to a few that are located elsewhere, like Fairfield, San Cruz, or Sacramento (Expo). The latter wasn't bad because it's right across from the entrance. But I couldn't figure out where it was in Fairfield for a while since it was hidden from the building entrance and closer to Starbucks.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2143416,-122.1462019,318m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

And Santa Cruz has it way across the street where you can't see it from the entrance.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.984501,-122.0349074,279m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

 

[y_p_w]

Please tell your folks to determine how they are gonna charge. This could turn out to be a nightmare. Does their service panel have room for a dedicated circuit? If not, you are talking thousands of dollars. Another possibility is an unused clothes dryer 220V recepticle.

I paid $600 all in for a union electrician to run 50' of #6 copper wire from the service panel to a NEMA 14-50 under the house to the garage. The wire alone was like $200 or more. And my service panel was already upgraded.

No offense, but you are making assumptions about EV ownership. Charging problems are the #1 reason EV owners go back to ICE.
I am not sure your family is ready for an EV; I hope I'm wrong.

They'll make it work. I don't think the handyman messed up the outlet/breaker installation. There was a place for it and it didn't exceed the box capacity.

The only worry right now would be about the durability of the Mobile Connector if used every day. I hear that a lot of Tesla drivers use that instead of the Wall Connector.

 

[The Critic]

They'll make it work. I don't think the handyman messed up the outlet/breaker installation. There was a place for it and it didn't exceed the box capacity.

The only worry right now would be about the durability of the Mobile Connector if used every day. I hear that a lot of Tesla drivers use that instead of the Wall Connector.

Hold on….what’s the size of their electrical service? Is it at least 125a? Ideally it needs to be 200A in order to support something like this.

Should be 6 gauge wire for a 50A, sounds like he used Romex, which is probably fine. I’d just verify the wire size.

 

[RhondaHonda]

The mobile connector only supports 32A of charging so you should be fine. I had an electrician install my outlet last week for the mobile connector for $250. Your parents got a great deal.

 

[y_p_w]

Hold on….what’s the size of their electrical service? Is it at least 125a? Ideally it needs to be 200A in order to support something like this.

Should be 6 gauge wire for a 50A, sounds like he used Romex, which is probably fine. I’d just verify the wire size.

I had it in my hand but didn't pay too much attention to it other than noticing that it was 4 solid wires. Looking at what they have at Home Depot where my dad got all this stuff, I think it's probably Southwire. It was only 4-5 feet. I've got an electrical engineer background, which means I know just enough about wiring to be dangerous. But resistance is proportional to the length, so it might be easier to get away with thinner gauge for a shorter length. I really don't know what it was other than three insulated wires and a bare copper ground wire inside a black jacket. It was maybe 3/4" thick and cut really short.

 

[The Critic]

I had it in my hand but didn't pay too much attention to it other than noticing that it was 4 solid wires. Looking at what they have at Home Depot where my dad got all this stuff, I think it's probably Southwire. It was only 4-5 feet. I've got an electrical engineer background, which means I know just enough about wiring to be dangerous. But resistance is proportional to the length, so it might be easier to get away with thinner gauge for a shorter length. I really don't know what it was other than three insulated wires and a bare copper ground wire inside a black jacket. It was maybe 3/4" thick and cut really short.

You really need to check. This could be a serious fire hazard.