Help with oil choice for Australian turbo falcon.

[Rdyno]

Hi all I'm wondering what oil is better for the XR6 turbo produced here in Australia?

I'm a mechanic but I don't quite understand the difference between these three oils http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=1&id_products=2 http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=5&id_products=360 http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3&id_products=278
I use the semi synthetic 10w-40 on the non turbo flacons until the FG series where I use the recommended HPR5 which is a full synthetic 5w-40 I just put that down to the VVT system and seals. Now I understand that the turbo variant of this engine requires a thicker grade of oil but I was wondering if any one that knows Penrite oils could explain the differences between the oils listed in the link? I was moreso wondering if the ten tenths racing oil would be a better oil to use especially in applications where the owner has turned the boost up.

The engine is a 4.0l (250ci) inline 6 cylinder with a garret gt35 in the early applications then I think they went to a larger turbo. The barra engines have dual cam phasers for variable cam timing but both cam move in relation to each other so in essence they are like a single cam controlled engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Barra_engine

 

[FCD]

The Penrite HPR 10 10W-50 full synthetic should do the trick

 

[Rdyno]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
The Penrite HPR 10 10W-50 full synthetic should do the trick


Yea that is currently what I use but I was thinking the ten tenths might be better for cars with higher output power than normal. I just don't know enough about oil to know

 

[Shannow]

Ford's spec in the manual is 15W40, which means that you are limited to dinos and semi synths.

If it were mine, I'd use Penrite racing 10W40...or at Repco, you can get Motul 10W40 sometimes.

 

[SR5]

Hi Rdyno,

Welcome !!

I like the Turbo Falcons, nice cars.

Have you tried ringing the Penrite helpline (or email) ? They have always been very helpful and honest to me.

For these Turbo Falcons, I would run a full synthetic. They handle the heat better

The full synthetic HPR or EveryDay synthetic from Penrite are Group 3 oils, HydroCracked mineral oils. Good stuff, but not their best stuff

The Penrite 10-Tenths full synthetics are Group 4 (PAO) and Group 5 (Esters). Very high performance oil base stock. The 10-Tenths are also built to be at the top end of their viscosity grade.

For example, the Penrite EveryDay 10W-40 has a HTHS = 4.0, also Castrol GTX 15W-40 has a HTHS = 3.95, much the same "oil film strength ". Now Penrite 10-Tenths Racing 10W-40 has a HTHS of 4.49 which is a lot more. For comparison Mobil 1 15W-50 has much the same with a 4.5 HTHS.

I would consider HPR 10 (10W-50) the 10-Tenths 15W-50 and also the 10-Tenths 10W-40 as contenders. All are much stronger than say M1 0W-40 with a 3.8 HTHS, the M1 also has less zinc, but costs more than any Penrite oil.

Me? I would go one of the 10-Tenths oils, probably 10W-40 for daily driving and 15W-50 for track days. But I would not be concerned with HPR 10 in the sump.

Ring the Penrite helpline, they will sort you out and not feed you a line of bull.

 

[Rdyno]

Thanks very much for the info guys. Yea I think I will stick to HPR10 for standard cars and recommend Ten tenths to customers with higher power outputs over standard cars (for people not from aus double power outputs can be achieved with minimal modifications)

Re: The Penrite help line I have had mixed results some assistants sound too busy and just want to get rid of you and some want to talk all day which is not good in my workshop lol as we have many cars to do.

 

[Shannow]

Guy I know has an XR-6 ute with a pro-charger.

356 RW KW, and Magnatec 10W40, and pretty good UOAs...yep, it's not a turbo and associated heat, but just saying.

 

[SR5]

Hey Mate,

Yeah to be honest I mostly email them (Penrite) so they are not rushed and have time to look into my question. Sometimes they consider my question a bit technical and so pass it up to their engineers, they usually get back to me in about 24 hours with real data and answers.

But yeah, hard to go past 10-Tenths Racing 10W-40, it's a great oil.

 

[Rdyno]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Guy I know has an XR-6 ute with a pro-charger.

356 RW KW, and Magnatec 10W40, and pretty good UOAs...yep, it's not a turbo and associated heat, but just saying.


Is it a standard black top engine? If so did he change the valves? The LPG engine and turbo engine both run a "different" high temp valve and use the same conrod.

Thanks again SR5.

 

[BrocLuno]

So a lot of folks here stateside run Group III oils in their turbo trucks (big rigs) and do so for 25,000 miles at a whack. The turbo temps get up to around 1,200*F and the oils don't break down or coke. Gotta remember that Delo 400 was the first oil to go 1,000,000 miles w/o an overhaul. Followed shortly by Delvac. So there is nothing inherently wrong with Group III.

If it's good enough, it's good enough. Do you need 10-Tenths? Are you tracking the car? Do you drive at high speed for hours with the sump temps above 250*F? How long do you leave the oil in the engine (OCI)? Do you have an external oil cooler? Remote mounted filter in an air-stream?

Lots of factors to consider when selecting an oil for turbo application. But most important factor is the oil plumbing routing for the turbo. Straight in the top of the mid-housing and straight out the bottom w/o kinks and bends. Oil left behind pooled in a turbo at shutdown (other than the film) can lead to all sorts of issues, but mostly coking ... If the oil plumbing is good, Group III can serve well for 4~6,000 mile OCI's.

 

[Rdyno]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
So a lot of folks here stateside run Group III oils in their turbo trucks (big rigs) and do so for 25,000 miles at a whack. The turbo temps get up to around 1,200*F and the oils don't break down or coke. Gotta remember that Delo 400 was the first oil to go 1,000,000 miles w/o an overhaul. Followed shortly by Delvac. So there is nothing inherently wrong with Group III.

If it's good enough, it's good enough. Do you need 10-Tenths? Are you tracking the car? Do you drive at high speed for hours with the sump temps above 250*F? How long do you leave the oil in the engine (OCI)? Do you have an external oil cooler? Remote mounted filter in an air-stream?

Lots of factors to consider when selecting an oil for turbo application. But most important factor is the oil plumbing routing for the turbo. Straight in the top of the mid-housing and straight out the bottom w/o kinks and bends. Oil left behind pooled in a turbo at shutdown (other than the film) can lead to all sorts of issues, but mostly coking ... If the oil plumbing is good, Group III can serve well for 4~6,000 mile OCI's.


This is for my customers cars so they could be doing anything most likely if they have the boost turned up with a tune and bigger injectors they are going to be putting the boot into it quite often. So high loads will be on the rod bearings these engines can make 400 rear wheel kilowatts without too much mods. Also the low RPM torque is massive they actually out torque the 5.4l 4 valve modular ford V8 found in the XR8 falcons of the older variant and most likely the only reason the XR8 has a slightly higher power rating is because ford australia did not want to shame the top car with the XR6T.

So as you can see these engines are quite something for their size.

 

[BrocLuno]

High bearing loads, HTHS is the key. So yeah - start looking for higher numbers.

If the boost comes from RPM (boost and engine speed climb sort of together...), less of a problem. Huge boost at low RPM, whole nuther issue. And that's what the big rigs are doing, down-speeding the motors and the HDEO's hold up well.

What are the rod bearing clearances?

 

[Rdyno]

I don't have the rod bearing specs sorry I probably can get them but not right now.

 

[CT8]

I would think a smaller viscosity spread could be better depending upon the starting temps.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
High bearing loads, HTHS is the key. So yeah - start looking for higher numbers.

If the boost comes from RPM (boost and engine speed climb sort of together...), less of a problem. Huge boost at low RPM, whole nuther issue. And that's what the big rigs are doing, down-speeding the motors and the HDEO's hold up well.

What are the rod bearing clearances?


Penrite racing 10W40 is 4.4 IIRC, so it's as stout as a 15W40 and fully synth.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Penrite racing 10W40 is 4.4 IIRC, so it's as stout as a 15W40 and fully synth.


Yep

Originally Posted By: SR5
Penrite 10-Tenths Racing 10W-40 has a HTHS of 4.49 and for comparison Mobil 1 15W-50 has much the same with a 4.5 HTHS.


And a LOT less expensive than M1 in Australia.
Penrite is also much easier for the average consumer to find in Australia than a full synthetic Grp 3 HDEO which I have never seen at my local auto-store.

We Aussies don't get all the high quality and low priced oil that you guys get in the states, but we can get Penrite synthetics everywhere at a (locally) decent price. It makes sense to use 10-Tenths for hotted up cars in Australia, that's why they make it and sell it. It ain't made for export to be the FF in a Ferrari.

BTW BrocL, I saw some 10-Tenths 15W-50 at a good sale price recently, but I just don't have enough car to justify it. If postage wasn't a female-dog I would have sent it to you for correct disposal via a worked V8 and a drag strip.

 

[hpb]

Originally Posted By: SR5
I would go one of the 10-Tenths oils, probably 10W-40 for daily driving and 15W-50 for track days. But I would not be concerned with HPR 10 in the sump.


Correct answer right there