Help on Variation of Mobil 1 for 2000 Celica GTS

[cutter]

Originally Posted By: amodoko
Thank you very much for your response.

How do I know if my engine has sludge? I'm assuming I would need to get an oil analysis done? I am going to be changing the oil myself next week so can I visually see sludge in the oil?



The 2zz isn't one of the sludgers from Toyota. Have you changed your lift bolts? It involves pulling the valve cover. That's a necessary maintenance procedure to check the wear on the bolts. When the valve cover is off, you can see if it's sludged or not.

 

[amodoko]

I have not changed my lift bolts yet but was planning on doing that at around 100,000 miles. So I guess I'll know then if there is sludge.

Acrographite, I won't mind changing filters then. How did you have problems with the OEM filters in your Rav4 and Yaris? I'm assuming the cars ran fine, but when you changed the filters did you cut them open and see something wrong? Or did the cars actually run with issues due to the OEM filter? If so, what issues did your cars have due to the filters? Just trying to understand what you meant by the OEM filters giving you trouble.

And I am leaning towards PU due to it being recommended by many and since it is so cheap at my local WM (only $21 for 5 qt jug and then a $10 rebate = $11). But I'm a big confused, I thought the only REAL synthetic oils were oils like Amsoil, Redline, and a few other "specialty" brands. I assumed PU was not a "true synthetic" since it has blends of different group oils in it, and I'm assuming those include group 3 hydrocracked oils in it. So when you said PU was the only real synthetic, I kind of scratched my head. I thought it would be grouped in there with other oils like Mobil 1, etc in terms of how "synthetic" it is.

Also, ARCOgraphite, when you had said "the W number (be it 0/5/10) has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with startup viscosity above freezing" I was also a bit confused. Here on BITOG in an article, it says it does make a difference on startup viscosity even at 75 degrees F. This is the link: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-103/. With the information from that link, I can see someone wanting to go down to a lower W, but not higher due to how much of a difference in can make in startup viscosity.

Not trying to argue, more just questioning for my own understanding and trying to see where your interpretation of the information comes from.

Thanks for the added information, much appreciated

 

[LineArrayNut]

SN PU is mostly gtl so therefore a real syn. What some people want (like me) is group iv or v ie pao or poe based oils or oils that are as good as.

 

[amodoko]

Isn't Mobil 1 gtl also? Making it in the same category as PU in terms of being synthetic? Or maybe I am wrong

 

[LineArrayNut]

M1 is mostly VISOM, an isomerized slack wax derived HC type. Of course there's a pile of other stuff in there, including group IV and V. They can't call M1 0W-40 synthetic in Germany any more, I'm not sure about PU.

 

[donnyj08]

often times auto parts stores run 5qt specials with a high end filter for about 30$ these may be your best bet. AAP has castrol edge and a fram ultra for 29$ right now.

any 5w30 OTC synthetic will perform similar. PU is worshiped here, but your engine will outlast your car on any 5w30 synthetic group III or not.

buy oil change deals (in your favorite brand) that come with a good filter.

my s2000 is a high revving engine just like your GTS. the previous owner ran M1 10w30 EP in it every 7500 miles since new. the engine has 72k on it now and it is spotless inside and runs like new. i used castrol EDGE with TI because it was on sale. All name brand OTC synthetics are great these days.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
PU 10W30


+1

...especially since you can find it for $21. PU 5w30 if you want to go w/factory spec.

 

[cutter]

Originally Posted By: amodoko
I have not changed my lift bolts yet but was planning on doing that at around 100,000 miles.


Oh boy, just hope they aren't broken then. It's a 6 hour DIY job or many $$$ fix if they are broken.

 

[amodoko]

Yeah, I actually think they are broken already. I haven't pushed my car hard in a while, but I vaguely remember me having no "lift" a while back. So I'm assuming the bolts are broken or something. I'm not too concerned with it at the moment since I need to first replace my clutch, replace the trans fluid, do the oil change, change the air filter, replace the serpentine belt, etc. There's a laundry list of other things I need to do to the car in terms of maintenance, but I enjoy doing them as long as I am not pressed for time. How the heck do people know my lift bolts are a maintenance item???? You guys know your stuff!!! I know a few things about my car, but nothing about other people's. That's crazy.

PS. I went to my Walmart and they are out of 5w-30 Pennzoil Ultra. For now I picked up Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30, but then I realized a few other Walmarts still have some ultra in stock. So NOW, being as anal as I am, I'm going to go return the Platinum and drive to a further Walmart to get the Ultra. I heard that Pennzoil Ultra is going to be discontinued, or become really hard to get a hold of. Is there any truth to that? That would be unfortunate to just decide on the oil I want in my car, just to not be able to get it during my next oil change. Not a big deal, but more of an annoyance since I made up my mind of what oil I want in my car and would like to keep it throughout the engine's life. Is there any benefit/drawbacks to keeping the same oil line throughout the life of an engine?

 

[Clevy]

Amodoko
Trust what you read about the viscosity and the spread. Arco might be trying to imply that there is very little difference in flow at start up at temps above freezing between a 10w and 0w but in reality there is a big difference,and at start up you want that oil pumping as quickly as possible,so just take note of what you read on the home pages and take members opinions with a grain of salt.
Now if I were you and if you can find the ultra you want I suggest buying it all. Every last jug on the shelf. Walmart is phasing out ultra so there will be no more of it on the shelves and will have to be acquired from a different supplier.
Pennzoil Platinum is a good oil as well. It's on par with M1 so if that's all you can find don't think twice about using it.
If price is no object I would run red line lubes. They are just awesome. I wish I could use them full time but here red line is 20 a quart. That's tough to justify when pp can be had for 24 a jug on rollback.
Royal purple's hps line is awesome too however their API stuff is not really any better than anything else out there so its not cost effective.
Why not try rotella 10w-30 out. It's got a very stout ad pack,can be found easily and cheap,it has high levels of detergents and dispersants and its in the grade your after. I bet it performs as well in your application as any other oil with a whole lot less money.
Just a thought.

 

[amodoko]

Thanks for the clarification on viscosity at startup, I just wanted to make sure I understood the charts correctly. I'll try to buy as much Ultra as I can then when I go to get more of it tomorrow. If I end up having trouble getting Ultra in the future, I may just switch to Pennzoil Platinum of M1. I'm not so sure if I'll run anything else more expensive, such as Redline, because I don't know if the benefits of those oils will really be of any benefit in my real life driving applications. They definitely would give me more peace of mind, but at $20 a quart, I'll just stick with the OTC synthetics that are around $25 for 5 quarts at Walmart. But thank you for that suggestion, at least now I have some more options if I ever want to upgrade. I'm sure Rotella 10w-30 would be fine as well, but I would like to stay with the manual recommended 5w-30. I would consider going to a 0w-30 in a heart beat, but wouldn't feel comfortable going up to a 10w-30 due to the higher viscosity at startup. For some reason, my local walmart doesn't seem to have Rotella in 5w-30 on their website. So I think for now, I'll stick with Pennzoil Ultra, or Pennzoil Platinum, and M1 if I switch later... and I would like to stick with 5w-30 for now. I figure I can't really go wrong with either of those 3 synthetic lines in those viscosities.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

W numbers are measured at -25/-30/and -35 celcius for CCS. The are NO measurements at ZERO degrees C. You would have to calc or extrapolate (dangerous!here) startup viscosity by looking at the Viscosity Index and the KV's Recall the the 40 degree KV translates into a measurement at ~ 100F. The W #s are taken near the gelation or wax point of oils showing thier beat cold temp capability - NOTHING ELSE IS IMPLIED.

On the Thai Denso We had constant engine noise and startup noise that wasnt these on the DENSO TOYOTA JAPON Foam ("Lexus") filters or ACDELCO or WIX. Does you engine spec a 90915-10004?
see here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1221038

 

[amodoko]

Got it, that makes sense. So when you were saying the W had nothing to do with startup viscosity above freezing you meant in terms of how the W was measured and not its relation to actual the actual viscosity of the oil at varying temperatures during startup.

And I never really knew a filter could cause such problems when new. I'm assuming the Thai Denso was causing engine noise because it was too restrictive? Or the bypass path was stuck closed when it needed to be opened? Thus causing their to be insufficient lubrication causing the engine noise?

The model number for the filters that Toyota recommends for my car are 90915-YZZF1 (newer model number) or 90915-YZZA1 (older model number). It doesn't spec a 90915-10004 as far as I know.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: amodoko
Got it, that makes sense. So when you were saying the W had nothing to do with startup viscosity above freezing you meant in terms of how the W was measured and not its relation to actual the actual viscosity of the oil at varying temperatures during startup.

And I never really knew a filter could cause such problems when new. I'm assuming the Thai Denso was causing engine noise because it was too restrictive? Or the bypass path was stuck closed when it needed to be opened? Thus causing their to be insufficient lubrication causing the engine noise?

The model number for the filters that Toyota recommends for my car are 90915-YZZF1 (newer model number) or 90915-YZZA1 (older model number). It doesn't spec a 90915-10004 as far as I know.
The above 90915 toyota filter PN # subs the ... F1 I was not apparent why it didnt work. I could speculate over- resined glassfibre/pulp media. Mystifying problem but reproducible MULTIPLE TIMES. Odd that the visually apparent build qual was excellent. Look at pics on google image search for that #.

 

[amodoko]

That is really interesting, thanks for the information. I will probably switch to a good oil filter I can pick up easily then at like a Walmart or something. Like an AC Delco, Motocraft, Purolator, etc.

PS, to anyone that was wondering. I ended up deciding on putting in Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 in my car. Pennzoil Ultra was sold out at all my local Walmarts. So then it came down between Mobil 1 and PP. And from what it says on the forum, those are both comparable oils. Since they are both great oils, I then looked at price. I chose Pennzoil Platinum over Mobil 1 only because it was cheaper here. It's funny, I started this thread looking to get Mobil 1 only, and now after getting some help from everyone here, I ended up with Pennzoil Platinum. Never would have guessed that.

Thanks guys