Help me make a decision on engine coolant.

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Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by Brian553
All carboxylic acids are plasticizers, not just 2-EHA.
I have a hard time believing that a formulator for antifreeze cannot do anything to modulate, counteract, or account for this interaction.

2-Eha is a far more aggressive plasticizer however than other Carboxylic acids.


Is it? How much more?

How much 2-EHA do they need to use to make an AF vs if they used sebacic acid?
 
It's funny how 2-EHA is a kind of universal boogeyman to some people on this board much in the way high-fructose corn syrup is to some health conscious people. I once bought a ketchup that claimed in big letters on the label that is was "glucose-fructose free" which is just another name for high-fructose corn syrup. When I tried the ketchup it was the sweetest ketchup I've ever tried which was odd because ketchup is not really supposed to be sweet, looking at the ingredients list revealed that the number one ingredient in the ketchup was sugar. You now have companies like Peak proudly labeling their newest formulations "2-EHA free" when claims of 2-EHA being more harmful to your car than sebacate have about the same level of verified science backing them up as claims that high-fructose corn syrup is more harmful to your body than plain old white sugar.

If 2-EHA was even half as harmful as some folks would have you believe Prestone (amongst other makers of Dexclone AMAM coolants) would have long been bankrupt under the crushing weight of multiple class action lawsuits from angry owners of vehicles not intended to run a 2-EHA Dexclone coolant. In the 20+ years that Prestone and others have been making 2-EHA Dexclone AMAM coolant their products would of found it's way into many millions of cars in the US, and many millions of vehicles designed to run coolant that is not a 2-EHA Dexclone like old school green IAT, G-05 HOAT, or P-OAT. Indie shops and dealerships all over the country would be inundated with cooling systems ruined by unsuspecting owners running these incompatible and inferior AMAM coolants. Of course none of those things have actually happened and since the introduction of the first fully OAT coolant (Dexcool) many manufacturers like VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Porsche, etc have switched to coolants containing 2-EHA and have superseded and no longer sell their older IAT, and HOAT formulations. So the wise minds in charge at VAG, BMW, and Diamler either are blissfully unaware of 2-EHA containing coolant's gasket eating and solder destroying tendencies, or they simply don't care, or those dangers are greatly exaggerated. Everybody is free to make their own conclusions, but I'm firmly in the greatly exaggerated camp.
 
Originally Posted by Jake_J
It's funny how 2-EHA is a kind of universal boogeyman to some people on this board much in the way high-fructose corn syrup is to some health conscious people. I once bought a ketchup that claimed in big letters on the label that is was "glucose-fructose free" which is just another name for high-fructose corn syrup. When I tried the ketchup it was the sweetest ketchup I've ever tried which was odd because ketchup is not really supposed to be sweet, looking at the ingredients list revealed that the number one ingredient in the ketchup was sugar. You now have companies like Peak proudly labeling their newest formulations "2-EHA free" when claims of 2-EHA being more harmful to your car than sebacate have about the same level of verified science backing them up as claims that high-fructose corn syrup is more harmful to your body than plain old white sugar.

If 2-EHA was even half as harmful as some folks would have you believe Prestone (amongst other makers of Dexclone AMAM coolants) would have long been bankrupt under the crushing weight of multiple class action lawsuits from angry owners of vehicles not intended to run a 2-EHA Dexclone coolant. In the 20+ years that Prestone and others have been making 2-EHA Dexclone AMAM coolant their products would of found it's way into many millions of cars in the US, and many millions of vehicles designed to run coolant that is not a 2-EHA Dexclone like old school green IAT, G-05 HOAT, or P-OAT. Indie shops and dealerships all over the country would be inundated with cooling systems ruined by unsuspecting owners running these incompatible and inferior AMAM coolants. Of course none of those things have actually happened and since the introduction of the first fully OAT coolant (Dexcool) many manufacturers like VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Porsche, etc have switched to coolants containing 2-EHA and have superseded and no longer sell their older IAT, and HOAT formulations. So the wise minds in charge at VAG, BMW, and Diamler either are blissfully unaware of 2-EHA containing coolant's gasket eating and solder destroying tendencies, or they simply don't care, or those dangers are greatly exaggerated. Everybody is free to make their own conclusions, but I'm firmly in the greatly exaggerated camp.




Very good point.

Now that I think about it the only two cooling system failures that I have been around involved traditional coolant.
One was an older mercury sable so it would have had either G-05 or iat and the coolant corroded a hole in the cylinder head.
The other was a cracked radiator in my sister's 2002 cavalier when she added traditional green to the DeXcool. After a flush, radiator replacement and refill with DeXcool it made it past 300000 miles with no more cooling system problems.
So I should really distrust traditional green iat not DeXcool.
 
Originally Posted by Zahndkile
Originally Posted by Jake_J
It's funny how 2-EHA is a kind of universal boogeyman to some people on this board much in the way high-fructose corn syrup is to some health conscious people. I once bought a ketchup that claimed in big letters on the label that is was "glucose-fructose free" which is just another name for high-fructose corn syrup. When I tried the ketchup it was the sweetest ketchup I've ever tried which was odd because ketchup is not really supposed to be sweet, looking at the ingredients list revealed that the number one ingredient in the ketchup was sugar. You now have companies like Peak proudly labeling their newest formulations "2-EHA free" when claims of 2-EHA being more harmful to your car than sebacate have about the same level of verified science backing them up as claims that high-fructose corn syrup is more harmful to your body than plain old white sugar.

If 2-EHA was even half as harmful as some folks would have you believe Prestone (amongst other makers of Dexclone AMAM coolants) would have long been bankrupt under the crushing weight of multiple class action lawsuits from angry owners of vehicles not intended to run a 2-EHA Dexclone coolant. In the 20+ years that Prestone and others have been making 2-EHA Dexclone AMAM coolant their products would of found it's way into many millions of cars in the US, and many millions of vehicles designed to run coolant that is not a 2-EHA Dexclone like old school green IAT, G-05 HOAT, or P-OAT. Indie shops and dealerships all over the country would be inundated with cooling systems ruined by unsuspecting owners running these incompatible and inferior AMAM coolants. Of course none of those things have actually happened and since the introduction of the first fully OAT coolant (Dexcool) many manufacturers like VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Mini, Jaguar, Porsche, etc have switched to coolants containing 2-EHA and have superseded and no longer sell their older IAT, and HOAT formulations. So the wise minds in charge at VAG, BMW, and Diamler either are blissfully unaware of 2-EHA containing coolant's gasket eating and solder destroying tendencies, or they simply don't care, or those dangers are greatly exaggerated. Everybody is free to make their own conclusions, but I'm firmly in the greatly exaggerated camp.




Very good point.

Now that I think about it the only two cooling system failures that I have been around involved traditional coolant.
One was an older mercury sable so it would have had either G-05 or iat and the coolant corroded a hole in the cylinder head.
The other was a cracked radiator in my sister's 2002 cavalier when she added traditional green to the DeXcool. After a flush, radiator replacement and refill with DeXcool it made it past 300000 miles with no more cooling system problems.
So I should really distrust traditional green iat not DeXcool.


The 3.0 in those Taurus and sables were known for some kind of electrolysis happening that turned the coolant to something resembling mud water. I worked at the Ford dealer in that era. It had nothing to do with the coolant as far as I know because it didn't affect other vehicles using the same coolant.

As far as radiators cracking, the aluminum with plastic side tanks have always been prone to that. It seems to be the luck of the draw. I have one in my Caprice that is about 12+ years old and still fine, but my dad's 05 keep tj has gone through 2, my ex's mom years ago had a 96 Corsica, the rad cracked when it was about 10 years old give or take. It was on dexcool. Had to replace intake gaskets on the 3.1. My ex had a 94 Grand Prix back then with green coolant. It also had leaking intake gaskets, which we ignored until it went to the wreckers replaced by my old 87 Caprice for her to drive.
 
OP
Quote
I am not considering the ford conventional green as an option because of the short change interval and I seem to recall that it causes sediment in the system but I could be wrong.


A lot of people don't realize that once a conventional green coolant (silicates) is used in an engine, the shorter change interval is necessary. Moving to any new DexCool type fluid will not lengthen the service interval.

The strength of the mixture is also critical to DexCool (and probably ALL) coolants. It should never exceed 50/50, in fact the earlier post that contained the page from the Corvette manual stated 40/60% coolant/water.

One of my first purchases when beginning to deal with DexCool in my 1999 STS was for a coolant refractometer. I've checked several Caddy's with it over the years and also my last two Mercedes, including the 2018 I now own. Each and every time, the mixture is right on the money at 50/50.

As far as the original posters question about the Prestone Flush. Use it EXACTLY according to directions. I kind of overdid the mixture on a car once and ended up eating a hole into the (in the side tank) transmission cooler. Needless to say that resulted in a costly trans repair.
 
Originally Posted by JohnG
OP
Quote
I am not considering the ford conventional green as an option because of the short change interval and I seem to recall that it causes sediment in the system but I could be wrong.


A lot of people don't realize that once a conventional green coolant (silicates) is used in an engine, the shorter change interval is necessary. Moving to any new DexCool type fluid will not lengthen the service interval.

The strength of the mixture is also critical to DexCool (and probably ALL) coolants. It should never exceed 50/50, in fact the earlier post that contained the page from the Corvette manual stated 40/60% coolant/water.

One of my first purchases when beginning to deal with DexCool in my 1999 STS was for a coolant refractometer. I've checked several Caddy's with it over the years and also my last two Mercedes, including the 2018 I now own. Each and every time, the mixture is right on the money at 50/50.

As far as the original posters question about the Prestone Flush. Use it EXACTLY according to directions. I kind of overdid the mixture on a car once and ended up eating a hole into the (in the side tank) transmission cooler. Needless to say that resulted in a costly trans repair.


Good to know on the prestone flush.
This spring when I have some money I am going to do my spring repair and preventative maintenance and I will post back whatever I end up doing and how it goes.
 
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