Heavier viscosity in a Toyota V6 sludge monster

[Alan]

Hi gang.
I got an 02 sienna that I've been using M1 SS 5W30 since 1K miles with currently almost 13K miles(changing at 5K intervals).Now every time I have changed the oil it has looked pretty beaten and a lot of UOA's that I've seen show that this engine is mercyless to oil.The Mobil seems a little on the thin side for a 30W and maybe getting sheared badly in this motor(this is the wife's car with a good amount of short trips put on it).Has anybody experimented with a 15W40 Delo type of oil with a 3K interval?All of the UOA's I have seen have been pretty positive with Delo as it seems to be a tough customer.Maybe 10W30?Also contemplating Delo in a 99 corolla(currently using M1 5W30).Starting to think that synthetics would be a waste in this motor as it seems pretty well reliable with a good dino(Havoline,Chevron)with regular 3K intervals.Darn cam gears!

 

[Ken4]

All the more critical to use a good synthetic with better cleaning properties in a sludge monster. I say stick with your M1 SS, you will have a cleaner engine.

 

[Alan]

Do you know if they recommemnd a heavier viscosity in Singapore for Toyota Siennas in Singapore?Just curious.Do you still run heavy stuff(compared to USA Toyotas)in your Camry and are you still getting good UOA's with it?Maybe just a good dino 10W30(Chevron)for both my Toyotas with 3K intervals may serve me better than 5K intervals with synthetics?Any thoughts gang?

 

[Ken4]

50wts are very common here. 40wts only started appearing about a year ago. 30wts are rare. The big oil companies (Mobil, BP, Shell, Esso) dont seem to deem 30wts fit for Singapore's climate. With the exception of Caltex which only just introduced the Havoline Energy Synthetic 5w30. The only other 30wt here is the Castrol SLX 0w30 which is available at some auto shops.

My 2000 camry 2.2L has been using 50wts synthetics since new and the UOAs show nearly zero wear.

But my fuel economy is very poor.

Recommend you do UOAs to convince yourself which oils are best suited for your engine. Dino or synthetic, low or high viscosity, different brands.

 

[Alan]

UOA's make sense.I tried a little experience where I put a bottle of Delo 15W40 along with a bottle of M1 SS 5W30 overnight in my freezer(Set down pretty low).When both bottles were taken out in the morning I performed the "shake the bottle" cold viscosity test.Seemed like the M1 had thickened up more between the 2 from their room temperature shakes.Wierd huh?The delo,while thicker while colder did not seem to have this much of a pronounced difference from the room temp shake I did the day before.I know this is about unscientific as it gets but I wanted to experiment at home and I did!

 

[Al]

Go with the Mobil 1 10W-30. This stuff will not shear down-period. Don't worry about the freezer thng. I use 10W-30 for years well north of you in Pa. My brother in-law uses the 10W-30 in Williamsport. I have started in -17 F no problem.

Do a used oil analysis after 6K or so to see how the 10W-30 works. I think you will be pleased.

 

[Alan]

Hi Al,from what limited UOA stuff I have seen on M1 10W30 SS,it looks good given the circumstances.Is this stuff really considered light for a 10W30?I am looking for something a tad beefier given the oil **** that is the Toyota V6(in a sienna nonetheless,oh the weight,oh the weight!).For some reason I fear 5k in this oil **** may even shear a mighty 10W30,especially in the summer heat with a full house in the van. Maybe a great 10W30(chevron)dino with changes at 3K maybe overall a better choice.

 

[RussellA]

I think Terry is having luck in these Toyota V6 using RedLine 10w30 . I'm currently using Amsoil 0w30 in my Toyota V6, it runs closer to a 40 weight where M1 runs closer to a 20. I am considering switching to RedLine. Unfortunately both Amsoil and RedLine are not API certified oils and some people have warranty concerns, but the concern would be no different if you used 15w40 Delo. The Castrol 0w30 with "Made in Germany" on the back is also a real PAO synth and would be an API certified alternative, if you can find it.


A few things about these engines. They seem to do better using 91 octane premium gas because the head temps don't get as high. You should replace the PCV valve often. And the Japanese Denso "Genuine Toyota" filter (90915-YZZB9) you can find at Lexus dealers seems much better than the U.S. Puralator "Genuine Toyota" filter (08922-02011) you find at Toyota Dealers.

 

[Terry]

RussellA, good info, I didn't know about the lexus filter being a better one.

I do know from testing 87 octane and 1 oz to 5 gallons Fuel Power, you can save money on 91 octane or higher fuel, cleaning all the time. I tested with the cheapest 87 octane regular I could find and swithed brands to verify. Computer couldn't tell the diff between the FP'd regular or 91 premium or higher. NO retard at any RPM range.

That result in the Toyo 3.0L V6 has been verified with MPG testing,Scanner readouts, and UOA.

 

[7TFord]

I too wouldn't go back to a petroleum product and the Mobil 10/30 is a good oil, but for the extra detergency and dispersency properties that you may require for your application maybe you could try a non passenger car oil like their Delvac 1 5/40. I use it in my 98 Tacoma V-6 and our 01 Corolla 4 cyl. Have never done any analysis on either but am now at the 6500 mile mark on the Corolla and the oil is still visibly in good condition with no top off being required to date.

[ July 18, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: 7TFord ]

 

[RussellA]

Terry,

What can I say, I think I've read every Toyota related post you've made on this sight.

The 90915-YZZB9 is one of those Denso resin filters for the V6 similar to the 90915-YZZB5 shown in a oil filter forum post here
Oil Internal view , but small, the same size as the 08922-02011 which is a puralator
web page .

I just discovered this yesterday when I went to pick up 2 filters for my brother-in-laws 99 RX300 at lexus(doing an auto-rx treatment for him). I recognized them as the Denso resin filter. It appears the bypass is more like the 90915-20004 shown in the second link and not the one used in the 90915-YZZB5 in the first link. It seems to be a better filter, but I would like to hear your input on this.

I'll be doing an oil change on the Toyota in October, expect to see me as a customer.

[ July 18, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: RussellA ]

 

[Alan]

Gang,
Yeah my van is still under warranty so api certified oil it is but those reports show good stuff (they better,given the price of Redline).The 2 oils mentioned in the book are the 5W30 and 10W30 with the 5W30 being preferred for all year service and 10W30 for areas that don't severe winters(like MD).That 0W30 stuff is hard to find and don't want to go slumming from store to store in search of it as fine as it may be though.The Delo does have API SL certification but it's somewhat heavier than what is suggested in the book

.Wouldn't it be similar to using the Amsoil/Redline type 10W30's since they are both closer to 40W at operating temperature(from what I've seen/read on the UOA board).I got a new PCV on hand to replace the current one.I did use 93 octane exclusively til about 8,000 miles.Prices kinda went up around that time and it doesn't ping on the 87 juice.

 

[RussellA]

quote:

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it doesn't ping on the 87 juice.

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No it won't because I think the computer plays with the timing to prevent it, but the end result in doing so is the heads run hotter and cook the oil. I would go back to the 93 if I were you or use the octane booster Terry mentioned above.

Not sure if Delo has a strong enough additive package, pretty sure it won't equal RedLine or Amsoil. Search this sight for more info on that. The best thing to do is do a UOA and have Terry do the interpretation and HOPE he gives you all his Toyota V6 secrets. I believe he has a 2001 Avalon himself. Oil analysis is his business so he doesn't like giving away too much information to non-paying customers. I can appreciate this since I wouldn't want to troubleshoot your Oracle database for free either. Until your UOA and interpretation with Terry I would stick with M1 10w30.

 

[Alan]

Hey 7TFord

Have you noticed any type of difference with conventional oil 5-10W/30 vs Delvac 1 in the 01 corolla?I have a 99 corolla which is pretty much the same car and wondering if it affected anything like revv-ability and such?Mine has around 45K on the clock,great motor.

 

[MolaKule]

If I had a Toyota sludge monter, I would use EITHER Redline 5W30 or Mobil 1 SS 10W30 with Auto-Rx treatments for two reasons;

1. Thinner oil is slightly more solvent than thicker oil, helping to wash surfaces,
2. better flow to the heads on cold and cool starts.

 

[RussellA]

Actually if you are confortable going outside the recommended weights. M1 0w40 might be the ticket if you can find it.

 

[7TFord]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan:
Hey 7TFord

Have you noticed any type of difference with conventional oil 5-10W/30 vs Delvac 1 in the 01 corolla?I have a 99 corolla which is pretty much the same car and wondering if it affected anything like revv-ability and such?Mine has around 45K on the clock,great motor.

---

Haven't used any other product since the break-in on petroleum and am now at 48K kms. Engine runs fine and am getting 40 plus mpg highway. Was concerned initially with the 40 wt for winter starting, but the Delvac 1 is supposedly only about 10% heavier than the Mobil 5/30 at these temps.

 

[Terry]

RussellA I look forward to your results gracing this desk.

As far as Toyo V6 engines and reducing the sludge development issue I recommend a 30w oil which M1 0w-40 would fit into by studying the SUS or cSt readings we are seeing.

I like the 30w range for exactly the same reasons Mola recommends above, oil needs to move quick to cut the heat at the heads especially the lifter bucket areas.
Whats the diff between 14 cSt and 12 ? Flow rate dudes. Vis is resistance to flow so I want max Hydro Dynamic protection with the least resistance to movement inherent in the liquid.

 

[Jimbo]

Dad's 1998 V6 Camry has over 100,000 sludge-free miles on it now. It has had Chevron Supreme or Pennzoil 10W-30 at approximately 3mo intervals it's whole life. The Pennzoil changes are done at the dealer with Toyota filters and the Chevron changes are at a quick-lube place that uses Champion Labs filters. He alternates between the two based on convenience.

 

[Al]

The great part of this board is that you can listen to all the informed opinions. After carefully listening to the facts and using your own preferences-make your own decisions. There are a lot of cases to be made for thinner oil. There are cases for thicker oil. The thicker can protect bearing surfaces better with higher load, lower speeds, higher temps-but only if it gets there. The lighter oil may be better in the Toyota for reasons Molakule and Terry mentioned.

However if you want to go to a slightly thicker oil than the M1 10W-30, you can mix in 15W-50 at a 25%, 50% or whatever to get you into more of a mid 30 wt range. It may well be though that the 15W-50 may not be as shear stable but you can bet it won't shear to a 30 wt.