HDEOs not suitable for high RPM?

[FCD]

Despite the fact that hundreds if ot thousands of people on this forum have used HDEOs in their gas engines, one recurring argument i see on many threads is that apparently HDEOs, even if they are dual rated, don't like high RPMs and can foam at high RPMs... is there any truth to that?

 

[Gokhan]

Probably only anecdotal.

API CK-4 and API SP both have the Sequence I–III D892 93.5 °C foaming tests, and the API CK-4 limit on Sequence II is stricter. However, API SP also has a D6082 150 °C Sequence IV foaming test, which API CK-4 doesn't have.

 

[Motu]

A lot of people use HDEO in motorcycles - probably running twice the rpm as your car, and churned up by the gearbox too. A nay from me.

 

[F150]

Used it many times in motorcycles and boats at high RPM with good results.

 

[Cujet]

On motorcycles, many have sight glasses. I've never seen significant foaming on any of my oil choices, in any of my bikes. I've used HDEO on and off for 40 years. The worst thing I've experienced using high viscosity HDEO in motorcycles is a little bit of cold-engine clutch drag.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Looking in the sight hole, I've seen a lot of foam with Rotella that was not seen with Mobil 1 4T. I've also seen the same in a dry sump engine on a dyno with a clear sump and filter housing. The observation was done on a dyno at 8000-8500 rpm sustained to replicate the rpm seen on the dirt track, diagnosing an issue with pressure dropping. With Rotella T4 15W-40, after some time at sustained 8000+ rpm, the oil would turn light brown like a whipped latte with a ton of foam in the sump and under the clear valve covers. This correlated with a sudden spike in oil temperature and drop in oil pressure.

I wouldn't expect to see it in a common commuter or fun car with temporary runs to 7000+ rpm.

Note that JASO MA2 allows up to 50 ml of foam in Sequence II with up to 10 minute settle time. That is a really pathetic standard. 50 ml is a ton of foam, >25% of the sample volume.

 

[Drew7a]

On a Kawasaki FR730/OPE I definitely see Foaming using delvac 1300 and that is only 3600RPM. Have notice the same on an outboard with Rotella 0-40W.

Is it harmful

 

[RDY4WAR]

Is it harmful

It can be if it gets the point where the high amount of entrained air compromises the oil film thickness/strength. An OPE would take a lot to reach the point of that being a problem since the BMEP is so low.

 

[Gokhan]

Rotella has antifoaming agents.

Diesel Oil Additives: The Power of Shell Rotella® Diesel Engine Oil Explained

Shell adds no fewer than seven oil additives to its Shell Rotella diesel oil – helping your diesel engine work harder. Find out more about oil additives today.

rotella.shell.com

That said, for motorcycles there are specialized oils that may outperform PCMO and HDEO.

 

[Ignatius]

I know plenty of people who use Rotella T6 5w40 and 5w30 HDEO in Subaru and Porsche performance applications and rev the heck out of their engines on a regular basis. No issues that I have heard of due to HDEO usage.

 

[Rygrego]

Despite the fact that hundreds if ot thousands of people on this forum have used HDEOs in their gas engines, one recurring argument i see on many threads is that apparently HDEOs, even if they are dual rated, don't like high RPMs and can foam at high RPMs... is there any truth to that?

No

 

[kebabaluba]

The only time i saw foaming through sight hole on my bike is when i just poured in new oil and ran the bike for a minute or two to sirculate oil around. After i used the bike for a little while i see no foaming whatsoever. I also used HDEO on my last 4 cars, with no issues.

 

[wpod]

It is not that it foams because it will foam, the foam has to rapidly dissipate. The HEUI engines moved the HDEOs to lower foaming..

 

[nthach]

I recommended Rotella T4 to a friend - he said it worked fine in his bikes(Honda CBR600F3 and Ninja 650) and T6 has a cult following with Subaru WRX and Jeep owners.

Also, I ran Delo 400 in 2 Mercedes V8s with no issues. As a matter of fact, I felt they ran smoother on Delo vs. Castrol GTX 20W-50.

If foaming was an issue, Ford and Navistar, as well as CAT would issue an APB to avoid certain HDEOs for their HEUI applications. Foamed oil = bad.

 

[jetman]

Me and most of my drag race friends use 15w40 HDEO in high rpm (8000rpm) race engines (TX).

 

[RDY4WAR]

Me and most of my drag race friends use 15w40 HDEO in high rpm (8000rpm) race engines (TX).

I wouldn't expect major issues in drag racing since the run time is so short. What engines are you referring to? I drag race a mild SBC and use a 0W-12.

 

[wpod]

On a Kawasaki FR730/OPE I definitely see Foaming using delvac 1300 and that is only 3600RPM. Have notice the same on an outboard with Rotella 0-40W.

Is it harmful

Gail banks has videos on You tube about differential covers and oil foaming watch the, My tractor has a sight glass on the trans and any Trans fluid I have used, oem and Chevron, shell and Mobil all foam. It is impossible to not foam think of an egg beater running on high speed in a bowl of oil. The important thing is rapid collapsing of the foam.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Here's the video Banks did with Amsoil that shows foam testing with compressor oils. Start it at the 13:40 minute mark.

 

[sk_pete]

in eu is more common to hdeo have only diesel ratings... no api s- at all...
is that safe in gas car ?

 

[FCD]

in eu is more common to hdeo have only diesel ratings... no api s- at all...
is that safe in gas car ?

In an older car without cats or dpf or anything, yes.