HDEO hurts Cats.

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MarkC

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"Delo is a diesel engine oil and I don't recommend it's use in a gasoline engine with a catalytic converter since gasoline engine oils have strict limits on zinc and phosphorus because of catalytic converters. Diesel engine oils however have no limits on zinc and phosphorus. Continued use of a diesel engine oil in a gasoline engine with a catalytic converter can contribute to shortening the life of the catalytic converter."

This came from an engineer.

Anybody experience any trouble yet?
 
What he says is correct.
Its whats been driving many of the newer oil stnadards ( SL, SM) limiting those addiitves.

How significant is it?
Difficult to tell.

Fred...
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Nada problems with Cats after many years of using PCMO oils with higher zinc/phos than current SL-CI-4 diesel oils .

I'd be more worried about CC deposits in the combustion chamber .

Cats are cheap and are built differently . Some look like Random Technologies Performance Cats . Need an oil burning monster to clog one .
 
We have long known metal and metal like elements can harm Pd and Pt catalysts. It mostly could be a problem if the car is drinking oil, though or burning leaded gas with Pb, for example.

The thing that remains a question with P is, how much in a good motor oil is harmful? An oil drinker with an SL 800ppm P oil may damage a cat faster than a tight engine with a 1600 ppm P HDEO oil.

And are these man made thresholds of P at 1000, 800, 600 ppm in a compounded oil real science or feel good numbers? I say they are "squishy" numbers....
 
How much does an engine rebuild cost compared to replacing the cats? Did you ask the engineer the proper question? Mark call and ask the question .Also!!! my wifes 2002 Powerstroke has a cat converter and is a diesel and requires a ch4 oil or better.
 
My truck has CA Cummins engine, evidently it runs cooler than the standard engine in order to minimize nitrogen coumpounds, and in doing so evidently generates more soot as the oil change interval is half of the other 2003 engines. I need to use a CI-4 oil, lately a blend of Delvac 1300 and Mobil 1 Truck & SUV. It also has a catalytic converter.

Don't know if it's true, but I recall reading that since it runs cooler it also has the longest potential engine life.
 
10w-30 OILS (Current data)
Chevron Supreme zinc: 0.103%
Chevron Delo 400 zinc: 0.140%
Chevron Supreme phosphorus: 0.094%
Chevron Delo 400 phosphorus:0.126%

10w-30 OILS (Data about 10 yrs old)
Kendall GT-1 zinc: 0.16%
Valvoline Turbo zinc: 0.13%

COMMENTS: Yes, when compared to current gasoline lubes, Delo and other mixed fleet lubes have relatively high zinc and phosphorus. But Delo zinc levels are not high when compared to some of the older gasoline lubes for "high performance" engines of roughly 10 yrs ago: Kendall GT-1 back then had more zinc than Delo has now. And those engines from the mid-90s all had cats, of course. So I'd think that Delo's zinc levels shouldn't be a problem. As for phosphorus, I don't have data from 10 yrs ago, but Delo currently has about 34% more phosphorus than Chevron Supreme, a significant, but not huge, difference.
 
A question might be
grin.gif


Will the future bring laws against using higher phos oils designated for competition or off road use only in passenger cars driven on public roads and will there be road blocks on the busy holiday weekends with designated new officers trained to pull samples out of the dipstick tube , all driver and car info taken and tickets sent via snail mail if caught having a phos level over 100ppm in a passenger car engine ?

If so , will I themotorbikeman
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be the first to invent a "in cab" device to inject a phos nuetralizer right into the engine while behind the wheel to give such test a negative phos reading ?

tongue.gif
 
quote:
uhhh....if these diesel oil are sooo bad for gas engines due to phosphorus levels, then why are they rated with an SL gasoline rating?
Click to expand...
I know, weird, huh? Two things the API does: a) they have an exclusion for SAE 40 (XW-40) on the P limits, because I guess they figure it will be more stable and b) new cars in the USA don't call for 40's....
 
My '04 Toyota w/ 2.4 4 cyl owners manual claims 1 quart per 1000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.
rolleyes.gif
This spec is common with other automakers.

Perhaps if you are "lucky" enough to get such a dog of an engine, then the phosphorus content of the oil would be a major concern.
 
quote:
Originally posted by tpi:
My '04 Toyota w/ 2.4 4 cyl owners manual claims 1 quart per 1000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.
rolleyes.gif
This spec is common with other automakers.

Perhaps if you are "lucky" enough to get such a dog of an engine, then the phosphorus content of the oil would be a major concern.
Click to expand...
WoW! So if a grocery mom drive her Camry for 3000mi and have an OC at Quik lube, 3000mi later, only 1-2qt of oil in her car! That's scary!
 
quote:
Originally posted by tpi:
My '04 Toyota w/ 2.4 4 cyl owners manual claims 1 quart per 1000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.
rolleyes.gif
This spec is common with other automakers.

Perhaps if you are "lucky" enough to get such a dog of an engine, then the phosphorus content of the oil would be a major concern.
Click to expand...
I would have a problem with a 1 quart every 1000 miles from ANY car company.Both my Jeeps run Delvac 1 5W-40 and I can't see any noticeable oil useage on the dipstick at 7-8000 mile intervals,one has allmost 100,000 miles and the other is a 01 with 2 pre-cats and both run great on HDEO's
dunno.gif
.The Mobile 1 15W-50 that is factory fill on the new Ford Cobra has almost as much additives,and has NO "sunburst" on the label, as my Delvac 1.
 
quote:
Originally posted by tpi:
My '04 Toyota w/ 2.4 4 cyl owners manual claims 1 quart per 1000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.
Click to expand...
'04 Matrix owners manual says "1 quart per 600 miles" is "maximum" oil consumption...
 
quote:
Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:
Originally posted by tpi:
My '04 Toyota w/ 2.4 4 cyl owners manual claims 1 quart per 1000 miles is acceptable oil consumption.
Click to expand...
'04 Matrix owners manual says "1 quart per 600 miles" is "maximum" oil consumption...
Click to expand...
That's crazy, if my engine did that I'd rebuild it.
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It seems to me that if your car consumed a quart of oil in 1000 miles or less, the cat's life would be substantially shortened no matter what type of oil you used.
 
These specs go back a long time. Manufacturers have been disclaiming responsibility for oil consumption issues for years. Obviously something is wrong with a new engine which burns a quart per 600-1000 miles (most engine designs). Unless the engine was swapped with a factory new engine, I'd probably leave it alone if I got one of these "gems." I'm not sure I'd want one of the dealer techs tearing into a new engine under warranty.

My Toyota is far more typical, a quart per 8000-10,000 miles.
 
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