Havoline Syn 10W-30

[Last_Z]

Hey guys....

Just changed my oil today. I switched from M1 5W-30 SS to Havoline Syn 10W-30. The reason for the switch was due to Walmart selling all their 5 quart jugs of M1 5/10W-30.
I did save a little money with the Havoline, but it isn't a PAO oil like M1. Have you guys heard good or bad about Havoline syn (with the big mouth; if it even matters) It is also distributed by Equilon, out of Houston, TX.

Something interesting that I found though was that the label in the front of the bottle is printed or painted on the plastic itself, but on the back it has a paper label. This made me curious, so I peeled the paper label off and found another label just like the front (printed/painted on the plastic)
There are differences between the two labels:

Paper labels (on top): API service SJ, SH, CF, CD, ISLAC GF-2

Painted label (under the paper one): API service SL, SJ, SH, ISLAC GF-3

What the heck is going on here? Should I be worried? Is SJ formulation ok for a 02 Z28?
Does this oil have moly in it?
Thanks for your responses.
Rick

 

[Last_Z]

BTW.....the piston slap or whatever else is slapping in there, is still doing it. Pressure might be a hair lower (literally), but I did use the longer version of the filter. The oil is very very very light colored; any lighter and it would look like baby oil.
Rick

 

[Patman]

I would not have used this oil. Not only is it not the latest formula, but it's possibly not even a PAO synthetic. And it does not have moly either.

I would have stuck with the M1, even if it's a bit higher in price.

 

[Patman]

It's not that the oil is bad, just that it's not going to be as good as the SL Mobil 1. Your 2002 may even require the SL oil under the warranty, it will say on your oil cap.

Just because an oil doesn't have moly doesn't mean it's not good, although I do believe if Amsoil ever adds moly to their formula they will reduce engine wear even more. I bet they are playing around with moly in their labs right now as we speak. They'd be foolish not to, it's the wave of the future with the lower phosphorus of GF4.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
It's not that the oil is bad, just that it's not going to be as good as the SL Mobil 1. Your 2002 may even require the SL oil under the warranty, it will say on your oil cap.

Just because an oil doesn't have moly doesn't mean it's not good, although I do believe if Amsoil ever adds moly to their formula they will reduce engine wear even more. I bet they are playing around with moly in their labs right now as we speak. They'd be foolish not to, it's the wave of the future with the lower phosphorus of GF4.

---

I see what you are saying....BUT, why is it that oil makers don't add that much moly to their products? M 1 barely has some (88ppm) (according to the analysis here); Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline and others have very very small amounts, so little it might not make a difference. It seems Schaeffers and Redline are the only ones that use it in big quantities.
Rick

ps: Didn't the SL formulation just come out not very long ago?? The bottle says on both labels that it meets the GM 4718M for Corvettes, so it should definitely be good for my car.

 

[Patman]

Oil makers are just catching onto the moly craze lately, and I think we'll see more and more jump onto the bandwagon in the future. Right now I think a lot of it is cost, they just don't want to add more costs to making their oil.

 

[monarch]

Every 5 years a new oil gimmick appears. At one time "graphite" was the gimmick additive. Now its
moly.

But the truth is car engines will run way past 200,000 miles on practically any SH, SJ or SL oil, dino or synthetic as long as it is changed on schedule. And assuming all other required factory maintainance is performed on schedule.

Quaker State is even willing to give a 250,000 mile engine wear out warranty on a new Camaro if
the owner uses their dino oil. That's because Quaker State knows the real cause of premature engine failure is not friction and wear caused by uning an unglamourous $1.40 a quart motor oil. It's caused by the rapid engine wear that occurs when the owner neglects the cooling system, neglects tune ups and neglects oil and air filters.

Probably a good number of the people on this forum
have old, worn cooling system hoses and thermostats or are not using distilled water in their system. That's what I mean by misplaced auto care priorities. It's just not fashionable and cool to give a **** about an aging heater hose or radiator cap. It's more fashionable to spend money on an oversize aftermarket oil filter or the oil with the best oil analysis scores.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by monarch:
Every 5 years a new oil gimmick appears. At one time "graphite" was the gimmick additive. Now its
moly.

But the truth is car engines will run way past 200,000 miles on practically any SH, SJ or SL oil, dino or synthetic as long as it is changed on schedule. And assuming all other required factory maintainance is performed on schedule.

Quaker State is even willing to give a 250,000 mile engine wear out warranty on a new Camaro if
the owner uses their dino oil. That's because Quaker State knows the real cause of premature engine failure is not friction and wear caused by uning an unglamourous $1.40 a quart motor oil. It's caused by the rapid engine wear that occurs when the owner neglects the cooling system, neglects tune ups and neglects oil and air filters.

Probably a good number of the people on this forum
have old, worn cooling system hoses and thermostats or are not using distilled water in their system. That's what I mean by misplaced auto care priorities. It's just not fashionable and cool to give a **** about an aging heater hose or radiator cap. It's more fashionable to spend money on an oversize aftermarket oil filter or the oil with the best oil analysis scores.

---

Very very true. Sometimes I think I'm taking this oil issue too far when really all that's needed is proper maintenance procedures. I believe that today's oils are very good and of course, better than ever.....just like cars, more powerful, more efficient and many are well priced.
I know there are some "outstanding" oils out there, but the marging in protection and wear is very very close on a 3-5k mile change basis. Example of this is RedLine....I still haven't seen really good reviews on it when compared to Schaeffers....just goes to show that synthetic isn't always better or overpriced stuff is not always best.
I personally would not want to do changes longer than 5k miles....I just don't like the idea of having crap circulating the engine for 10-15k miles, not matter how good the oil is.
Rick

 

[joee12]

quote:

---

Originally posted by monarch:


Probably a good number of the people on this forum
have old, worn cooling system hoses and thermostats or are not using distilled water in their system. That's what I mean by misplaced auto care priorities. It's just not fashionable and cool to give a **** about an aging heater hose or radiator cap. It's more fashionable to spend money on an oversize aftermarket oil filter or the oil with the best oil analysis scores.

---

I disagree with your statement. You are going to find that people here are just as concerned about other maintenance areas besides oil, it's just that the other topics are not as fun to talk about as oil

-Joe

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
"I see what you are saying....BUT, why is it that oil makers don't add that much moly to their products? M 1 barely has some (88ppm) (according to the analysis here); Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline and others have very very small amounts, so little it might not make a difference.

If a oil has say around 80 ppm of moly like the M1 does and it only uptakes 35 ppm during the interval I would imagine thats adequate and why once plated 40 ppm would be enough for a 3-4 k drain in using a OTC dino oil,,thinking Pennzoil,Castrol and Phillips knew this when they added it to their oils. If I were a oil maker and produced such huge quantities per year I certainly would not use more than needed to cut costs when competing against other OTC oils

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dragboat:
Quote:
"I see what you are saying....BUT, why is it that oil makers don't add that much moly to their products? M 1 barely has some (88ppm) (according to the analysis here); Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline and others have very very small amounts, so little it might not make a difference.

If a oil has say around 80 ppm of moly like the M1 does and it only uptakes 35 ppm during the interval I would imagine thats adequate and why once plated 40 ppm would be enough for a 3-4 k drain in using a OTC dino oil,,thinking Pennzoil,Castrol and Phillips knew this when they added it to their oils. If I were a oil maker and produced such huge quantities per year I certainly would not use more than needed to cut costs when competing against other OTC oils

---

Interesting....but why does schaeffers and redline use so much then??

 

[dragboat]

I don't know about Redline but Schaeffers is not a Disulphide type to my knowledge and they do not have to compete with the OTC Dino's and also the Schaeffers is generally run well over twice the miles a buck a quart OTC dino is before drain and through analysis there is usually plenty left over

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:
I would not have used this oil. Not only is it not the latest formula, but it's possibly not even a PAO synthetic. And it does not have moly either.

I would have stuck with the M1, even if it's a bit higher in price.

---

This oil isn't in fact a PAO. I checked the MSDS from Texaco and from what I read it seems to be a Group III oil (Hydrotreated). I know SJ is not the latest, but is this formula really that bad? M1 might be better, but by how much? How much can there be in wear difference? AMSOIL doesn't have moly and it is still a very good oil!? I didn't find any analysis on this oil; does anyone have any good to say about it??
Thanks, Rick