Have you seen this YouTube testing?

[jtwrace]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by jtwrace
No, the "W" is the cold number and the 30, 40 etc is the hot number so it thickens.

Guess I was just stuck on the bolded statement.

What else do I not understand with my whopping 32 posts?

Originally Posted by kschachn

Not to be too harsh but your incorrect understanding is rampant on this board at times.

 

[kschachn]

You were the one to initially try and correct me, I was only responding to your statement. And yes, misunderstanding of the winter ratings can be rampant on here as there are many posts about multi-viscosity oils thickening as the temperature increases.

None of this has anything to do with your post count, people post incorrect statements and when corrected they get snarky. That is also common on here.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by kschachn
And yes, misunderstanding of the winter ratings can be rampant on here as there are many posts about multi-viscosity oils thickening as the temperature increases.

I wanna buy a 0w5w lube but I can't find one..dang it!...‚

 

[jtwrace]

Originally Posted by kschachn
You were the one to initially try and correct me, I was only responding to your statement. And yes, misunderstanding of the winter ratings can be rampant on here as there are many posts about multi-viscosity oils thickening as the temperature increases.

None of this has anything to do with your post count, people post incorrect statements and when corrected they get snarky. That is also common on here.

I see. Pretty sure I didn't get snarky.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
I wanna buy a 0w5w lube but I can't find one..dang it!...‚

That would be a very thick oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by T-Stick
One of the major flaws I note in antiwear testing is that the oil is not first heated to engine operating temps which essentially thickens it to its proper viscosity for loading. So in essence this methodology theoretically tests which oil has the best extreme pressure antiwear at startup.


As kschachn has tried to explain, all oils thin as they heat. All oils thicken as they cool. The Winter (W) rating for the lubricant simply signifies the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests at their respective temperatures for a given rating.

The limits for example for a 0w-xx lubricant are at:
-40C for MRV (pumping test) with a limit of 60,000cP
-35C for CCS (cold cranking) with a limit of 6,200cP

The CCS rating caps how thick an oil is allowed to get before it has an impact on the ability for the engine to crank. The MRV rating caps how thick an oil is allowed to get before it will no longer get sucked into the oil pump. Typically, it is the CCS limit that is hit first.

Unfortunately the XOM Chemical PDS site is down, as using one of their PAO data sheets, which shows visc measured at a variety of different temperatures would help to visualize this.

 

[OVERKILL]

Adding, because Mobil's PDS site is back up:

So, this is a ~6cSt base oil (PAO) with a natural VI of 143.

If we go by J300, we can see that the 6cSt hot visc places it as an SAE 12 (would have been a thin 20 before 8, 12 and 16) and the CCS result of 3,600cP at -35C puts it firmly in the 0W-xx camp for winter rating, ergo, this base oil would pass as a 0w-16.

What you can also see from the KV plot though is that the oil goes from 5.9cSt @ 100C -> 30.3cSt @ 40C -> 7,400cSt @ -40C.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL


As kschachn has tried to explain, all oils thin as they heat. All oils thicken as they cool. The Winter (W) rating for the lubricant simply signifies the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests at their respective temperatures for a given rating.



Another common misunderstanding is the belief that an 0w oil is just too thin to work in a high performance or " hard working " engine. I have been asked numerous times if I know that the oil I'm buying is a ZERO WEIGHT ...

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
I wanna buy a 0w5w lube but I can't find one..dang it!...‚

That would be a very thick oil.

What can I say.. 🎼I like thick oil and i can not lie!

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


As kschachn has tried to explain, all oils thin as they heat. All oils thicken as they cool. The Winter (W) rating for the lubricant simply signifies the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests at their respective temperatures for a given rating.



Another common misunderstanding is the belief that an 0w oil is just too thin to work in a high performance or " hard working " engine. I have been asked numerous times if I know that the oil I'm buying is a ZERO WEIGHT ...



NASCAR Cup Engines use 0w-20 or 0w-30.

NHRA Pro Stock engines use 0w-3.

NHRA Pro Stock Bike engines use 0w-10.

What gets me is when someone uses the word "weight" when they mean "grade." It's a major pet peeve. The "w" stands for "winter."

 

[N Heat]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR

These tests are about as useful as testing which color of Prius can tow better.


So which color does tow better?

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


As kschachn has tried to explain, all oils thin as they heat. All oils thicken as they cool. The Winter (W) rating for the lubricant simply signifies the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests at their respective temperatures for a given rating.



Another common misunderstanding is the belief that an 0w oil is just too thin to work in a high performance or " hard working " engine. I have been asked numerous times if I know that the oil I'm buying is a ZERO WEIGHT ...



NASCAR Cup Engines use 0w-20 or 0w-30.

NHRA Pro Stock engines use 0w-3.

NHRA Pro Stock Bike engines use 0w-10.

What gets me is when someone uses the word "weight" when they mean "grade." It's a major pet peeve. The "w" stands for "winter."



In OFFICIAL oil viscosity classifications, there is no such thing as a " 3 " or a " 10 " grade oil. We do now OFFICIALLY have 16 grade, and likely a 12 and 8 grade soon.

Kind of like HKS, a Japanese tuner company, selling 7.5w33 oil. There is, technically speaking, no such thing.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


NASCAR Cup Engines use 0w-20 or 0w-30.

NHRA Pro Stock engines use 0w-3.

NHRA Pro Stock Bike engines use 0w-10.

What gets me is when someone uses the word "weight" when they mean "grade." It's a major pet peeve. The "w" stands for "winter."



In OFFICIAL oil viscosity classifications, there is no such thing as a " 3 " or a " 10 " grade oil. We do now OFFICIALLY have 16 grade, and likely a 12 and 8 grade soon.

Kind of like HKS, a Japanese tuner company, selling 7.5w33 oil. There is, technically speaking, no such thing.


It's what could be closely considered for a grade. It just gives a reference point. The KV100 is in the 3.5-4.0 cSt range. These blenders couldn't care less about SAE J300.

Example:
https://www.hploil.com/product-page/0w3-pro-light-racing-motor-oil-quart

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by OVERKILL


As kschachn has tried to explain, all oils thin as they heat. All oils thicken as they cool. The Winter (W) rating for the lubricant simply signifies the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests at their respective temperatures for a given rating.



Another common misunderstanding is the belief that an 0w oil is just too thin to work in a high performance or " hard working " engine. I have been asked numerous times if I know that the oil I'm buying is a ZERO WEIGHT ...



NASCAR Cup Engines use 0w-20 or 0w-30.

NHRA Pro Stock engines use 0w-3.

NHRA Pro Stock Bike engines use 0w-10.

What gets me is when someone uses the word "weight" when they mean "grade." It's a major pet peeve. The "w" stands for "winter."

Surprises me they're not running a straight grade. What benefit is there to running a multi grade in these cars? Especially a NASCAR that's putting hundreds of miles on the lube in a single running...

 

[tundraotto]

More horsepower

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by tundraotto
More horsepower

I understand losses would apply if you run a thicker oil but a 0w30 and a straight 30 are essentially the same viscosity at operating temp, right? So where is the hp loss occuring? I could see that maybe being true at cold start since a straight 30 is possibly thicker, but it may not necessarily be the case since these events are not occuring below freezing. NASCAR cars run several laps prior to getting the green flag, a straight 30 is going to be at operating temp as would be the 0w30. So why wouldn't you run a straight 30 as opposed to a multi grade, since it is more sheer stable? Again, a straight 30 is going to have a similar HTHS value at operating temp as the multi grade.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Surprises me they're not running a straight grade. What benefit is there to running a multi grade in these cars? Especially a NASCAR that's putting hundreds of miles on the lube in a single running...

I don't know, but I bet those lubes actually are formulated like straight grades but end up testing out as multi-grades.

 

[RDY4WAR]

A straight grade will have a higher HTHS and higher pressure-viscosity coefficient (most of the time), both which provide more high temperature protection but also increase hydrodynamic drag. For these guys, a 0.5% power gain is far more important than a little less wear.

EDIT: As mentioned above, they are straight grades essentially. No VI. They use some of the "lightest" base oils they can find though.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
A straight grade will have a higher HTHS and higher pressure-viscosity coefficient (most of the time), both which provide more high temperature protection but also increase hydrodynamic drag. For these guys, a 0.5% power gain is far more important than a little less wear.

EDIT: As mentioned above, they are straight grades essentially. No VI. They use some of the "lightest" base oils they can find though.

Ok, that makes sense for a top fuel funny car or pro stock bike but NASCAR does have hp limits (restrictor plates) add to that these engines don't have a problem producing hp..in fact it's just the opposite, they create too much hence why NASCAR restricts hp.

NASCAR

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
A straight grade will have a higher HTHS and higher pressure-viscosity coefficient (most of the time), both which provide more high temperature protection but also increase hydrodynamic drag. For these guys, a 0.5% power gain is far more important than a little less wear.

EDIT: As mentioned above, they are straight grades essentially. No VI. They use some of the "lightest" base oils they can find though.

Ok, that makes sense for a top fuel funny car or pro stock bike but NASCAR does have hp limits (restrictor plates) add to that these engines don't have a problem producing hp..in fact it's just the opposite, they create too much hence why NASCAR restricts hp.

NASCAR


NASCAR restricts air flow into the engine. You're limited on how much air and fuel you can burn so the only other way to make power is to free up power with better mechanical and thermal efficiency and less friction.

NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car doesn't actually care about that. They use an SAE 70 grade mineral oil to handle the massive amount of pressure as well as handle the high fuel dilution. Those engines consume over 6 gallons of nitromethane every round and some of it inevitably ends up in the crankcase. It's not uncommon for those engines to have 10+% fuel dilution at the top end of the track. When the entire engine is torn down after every run, it doesn't really matter. They are also making way more power than they can use anyway. It's less about who can make more power and more about who can put more power to the ground without spinning. They can't fully lock up the clutches until past half track. It's not like Pro Stock where they are fighting for every last hp to get a competitive edge.