Have you ever killed someone?

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Try not venture deep into philosophical thought lest it drive you to madness [Wink] I have pondered a lateral thought actually. On one hand people have told me "you saved my life" To the contrary, my thought was "no I did not it was just circumstance." On killing, my thought has been have I ever killed someone via a "domino circumstance." Meaning, suppose I was at the right stop sign at the right second, or said a certain thing to a certain someone. This event sets off a "alternate dimension" of a chain of counter actions which culiminate in death to any my previous action affected. For example I clear the intersection unscathed and the guy behind me gets T-boned second. So although unrelated in a common sense aspect my limited role "A" to that stranger could have been attributed to sequential act "G" of killing correct?
 
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Looks like he is a police officer under his profile. If this was the case when it happened, regardless of the situation, you folks are always put in dangerous situations. You have to react. You can always 2nd guess reactions, but the fact is you did what you felt was right for that situation. I thank you for your duty. I can't comprehend what you are going through, but it sounds like it's really weighing on you. If you are religous, I would pray desperately for peace. You'll be in my prayers.
 
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quote:
Have you ever killed someone?
No, but I have room for a few telemarketers in my basement. PS: I often make people mad. I don't think that's ever caused a coronary, though.
 
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AstroVic - 2x, thank you for protect everyone for safety.
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: You did your job. I would say you went beyond the call to not terminate his existence earlier. The second he attacked you, he waved his rights, the rules went away. He was asking to end it. Don't take it personally, in fact I thank you for doing that for US ALL.
 

MolaKule

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AstroVic, I was an RPO at the time. Had a shootout with three perps after hours at a closed Jewelry store in St. Louis County in which I contributed to the taking out of one of the perps. Other officers contributed to the taking out of the other two. My police issue shotun with slugs was very effective. Was I scared, you d...d right. I have never been in a situation in which so many gunshots were going off, so much glass was breaking, and just general mayhem. I don't know how the military guys in battle do it. [Patriot] Felt guilty, no; felt good, no. I was doing my job and was glad it was him (them) and not me. One of the other officers (first on scene) was shot three times by one of the perps and was in Hosp. for 6 months. I felt very vindicated in killing the perp because of the officer that was shot down without warning and ambushed. Thank you for doing your job. You were protecting yourself and the public.
 

AstroVic

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quote:
Originally posted by Doug: Wow. That's crazy. How bad were you hurt?
The knife was a common kitchen butcher knife with a pointed tip. The blade actually bent when it hit my skull (no kidding!), so I would consider myself to be one incredibly lucky person. The doctors at the hospital put a few staples in my head and sent me home with a fistful of pain meds. All in all, I came out of it okay. I've got a relatively small scar on the top of my head, just above the forehead, and it's fairly hard to see unless I point it out. I also have a new calcium buildup on the spot where the knife hit the skull, but it's nothing more than a small bump.
 

AstroVic

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Originally posted by XS650: If you aren't already doing it, get some counseling. All I have to go on is the article you quoted. Based on that limited amount of information, you should have used deadly force sooner, but I wasn't there and don't know how things were unraveling at the time.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I truly appreciate it. [Smile] My department sent me to one mandatory counseling session with Houston PD's shrink. Took about twenty minutes and that was it. Only recently has it started bugging me. And, like I said, my actions are not bothering me - it's the fact that I can't get the scene out of my head. I read an article titled "I've Killed That Man a Thousand Times" and the title says it all. I probably should see if my department would send me to see a counselor. I'll have to look into it.
 

AstroVic

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Originally posted by Dan4510: The common reaction of a decent man on having to do this is horror, upset, and all the other negative things associated with killing.
Exactly the way I feel now. I shot this man three times in the chest (at relatively close range) and I literally watched him die right in front of me. That's hard to let go, believe me. Mostly, though, I am glad I went home to my family that night. I'm also glad he wasn't able to hurt his mom and his girlfriend anymore. I will PM you for that reading list. Thank you.
 

AstroVic

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Originally posted by ruking77: However, if the "story" is true, you are indeed a much more compassionate man than I. If I was in the same situation (and I am not obviously, nor can it be totally duplicated) if that guy would have so much as twitched his forearm muscles (within 1-6 ft, this is also a "lethal" range to do a bayonet thrusting maneuver), I would have double tapped. And if he was still in a position to offer a threat with the knife, I would have kept firing till the "alledged knife/allegded perp" threat was no longer there.
The only part of that story that wasn't quite accurate was the part about me trying to fend him off with pepper spray first. It's true that I had my pepper spray in my hand and was preparing to use it on him, but that's only because I had no clue that he had a butcher knife in his hand. I never actually deployed the pepper spray. Quite honestly, I didn't have a chance to do so. I didn't see the knife until he was stabbing it at my face from about two or three feet away (think Jason from Friday the 13th). It happened so fast, all I could do was duck and try to protect my face. Thankfully that probably saved my life as the point struck the thickest part of my skull and did not penetrate. By the way, the blow was so severe that it literally knocked me off my feet and onto the ground - and I'm 6'02" and 250 pounds.
 

AstroVic

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Originally posted by SAFN49: Please make sure, before you "go back out there", that you do have a SOLID handle on your feelings and that you and your heart, are of the same mind. Your profession does not allow the luxury, of a few seconds of thoughtful inquiry into the "proper" course of action, or heaven forbid, hesitation. You owe it to yourself, your loved ones, your brothers and the community you've sworn to protect - to be able to react, just as swiftly and surely, should there be a next time - as you did the last time.
Thanks, Doug. You are 100% right. This incident happened in August of this year and I have been back to work since about three weeks afterward. I am absolutely positive that I would react the same way in another deadly encounter, without hesitation, if I am ever put in that situation again. I just hope I never have to go down that road again. But, on the bright side, I know that if I *do* have to go down that road, I have survived once and I can/will survive again. [Smile]
 

AstroVic

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Originally posted by MolaKule: Had a shootout with three perps after hours at a closed Jewelry store in St. Louis County in which I contributed to the taking out of one of the perps.
MolaKule, How long did it take before you went a full day without thinking about it? A week without thinking about it? I'm guessing it's going to take a long time to bury it in the back of my mind, but I'm okay with that, so long as I remind myself that it's normal to go through this process.
 

AstroVic

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Thank you to everyone on this site for being supportive. I guess I just needed to get some thoughts out there. There are times when I'll be sitting there, reading about motor oil, and then suddenly I'll get tears in my eyes and I don't know why it happens. This huge feeling of sadness grips me, but I know I'm not sad because of what I did. It's more like I'm sad because I don't want my three daughters to grow up without their daddy around or my wife and I to miss out on our lives together. And then I'm sad because I can't stop seeing this scene play out in my head. For the guy who stabbed me, it always ends the same, but sometimes I imagine how it could've been worse for me, say, if the knife caught me in the neck or something, and I bled to death. Then of course I'm sad because I can still see that man take his last breath and the look on his face (in my mind, of course). Stuff like that. It's really unlike anything else I've ever experienced, believe me. It's annoying more than anything else.
 
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AstroVic-I have been in your situation many times through the course of my duties, never taking a life but I have sat with brothers and sisters in arms that HAVE. Its tough. We like to think of ourselves as nothing can phase us, we are the Police, we are the protectors and have to be the indestructable force. But we are human. We feel and bleed and live like most everyone else. All the justification in the world will not heal the situation immediately. You did your job, admirably I must say, but only time will be the true mediator. Look to your family, friends, collegues for support. Don't be afraid to show your emotion, it will show others how to help you cope with this. Its going to be painful, but you will be alright. Hang in there my brother and keep the faith. And when you're ready, step back into battle and continue to fight.
 
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Have I ever killed anyone? [I dont know] Mistakes have been made, but this was no mistake. If you were not there, no telling how many others would have been injured. You did the world a favour, don't feel bad...this POS doesn't deserve sympathy, he GOT what he deserved. He attacked YOU with deadly force, it was not some ambiguous situation with a hostage. You protected your OWN life, lucky you are here to tell about it. BTW- if anyone wants someone wacked, PM me. [Big Grin]
 

MolaKule

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MolaKule, How long did it take before you went a full day without thinking about it? A week without thinking about it? I'm guessing it's going to take a long time to bury it in the back of my mind, but I'm okay with that, so long as I remind myself that it's normal to go through this process.
We are glad you made it through ordeal without more injury. It is normal to go through the flashbacks, etc. In my case the assailant was about 20 yards away when the slug hit him. At the instant of firing, I wasn't sure he was hit until, well, I'll pass on the gross parts. I do remember chambering another round just in case he raised his weapon again. It all happens much too quickly, but when attacked with a gun or knife, you have to protect yourself and the public from further harm. It took about 3 months before I could wash the scene away and get a good nights sleep. And this was before the department issued BP vests. It's a miracle that more of us didn't get hit as well. These guys were armed to the hilt with all kinds of weapons. The perps were found to have long rapsheets for burglary, armed assault, rape, domestic violence, drug dealing, etc. Te hardest part was meeting with shot officer's wife and kids in the ER. For about a week, we weren't sure if he would make it. It was days of endless alternating optimism and pessimism. It was determined later when he could speak that we learned the officer kept firing until he lost concioussness from his wounds. He was out of moonclips when he was shot the third time. He pulled through and was back on duty after recovery.
 
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