Have you ever killed someone?

[AstroVic]

Many of you know probably my story, so I won't bother going into the details again. I'm just curious if anyone else on here has killed another human being? If you have, how did it effect you?

I am 100% sure I did the right thing (and the only thing assuring me of going home that night), but the memory of what happened isn't going away as fast as I'd like to admit. That's not to say that I'm a basketcase or anything like that. It's just that the memory of what happened is constantly on my mind - every hour of every day.

 

[427Z06]

Having been in the branch of the military that kills from afar, I can't say that I can empathize with you completely. But here are two things that keeps my conscious clear.

One: Man has been warring since recorded history and probably before then.

Two: The bible makes the distinction between killing and murder.


I'm at peace with myself for have killed, albeit from afar. And I will try to the day I die, never to murder.

Hope that helps.

God Bless.

 

[Pablo]

I actually don't know your story and it's natural human curiosity to ask "What happened?" (Did I miss something?) - when such a thread title is used.

I have never purposely killed anyone. I cannot say that as a human, some decision tree I was involved in or even started didn't lead to the eventual death of another. We are all subject to this.

I can say if in your case it was war (doesn't sound like it), and it wasn't wanton against true innocents then you are OK. If it was an accident, well accidents do happen.

Are you seeking forgiveness? (Doesn't sound like that either). You need to list the things that are bugging you. Memories are the toughest. Love helps the most.

 

[Schmoe]

No, never had. But I can think of an EX that surely made me think about it!!!!

 

[andrews]

Astrovic,
I don't know your story, but the desire you have to talk about it may show a need to seek some counseling. In my mind it would be perfectly natural to think deeply, and often, about what happened. Killing another person has an impact that can be extreme to the psychological health of an individual. It sounds healthy though, that you feel 100% justified in your actions, yet you still realize the significance of taking another life. Re-thinking what you did, over and over, may just be your need to work out any guilt issues or perhaps to solidify your justification in killing.
Try getting in touch with a group of people that have had similar circumstances. I'm sure you could do this by contacting a therapist. If you're a policeman you should have many counseling resources to pull from.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I've tried to kill people with kindness.

 

[AstroVic]

Thanks, guys, for the support. I guess my point in posting is that I'm just trying to find someone else who has been through something like this to see how it's effected them. I am a very stable person and I've got a great family, but there have been times where I get angry at the fact that this had to happen because I feel as though it'll always be in my head somewhere. It's like I can never get away from the thoughts, particularly when I happen to be in the neighborhood where it happened.

Anyhow, here is the local newspaper story:
______________________________________________

Man attacks Deputy Constable, shot dead.
______________________________________________

Casey Welch, 20, was allegedly attacking his mother, Marcetta Helms and possibly another woman with a large butcher knife when a neighbor called 911 to report the assault.
A Precinct 3 deputy constable, whose name was not released by authorities, was the first responder and found Welch wielding the butcher knife and breaking a window of the home where he lived with his mother and stepfather on the 30000 block of Granum Drive in the Imperial Oaks subdivision off Rayford Road.
Officials said Welch attacked the deputy with the knife. They said the deputy tried to fend off Welch with pepper spray first, but it was unsuccessful. Welch then swung his knife and stabbed the deputy in the head, knocking the deputy to the ground.
Officials said the deputy then drew his duty weapon and shot Welch several times in the upper chest area. Welch was pronounced dead on the scene by paramedics at 2:38 a.m. Saturday morning.
The deputy was taken to a hospital, but his condition was not made available.
The incident is being investigated by the Texas Rangers because a deputy constable was involved.
Precinct 3 Constable Tim Holifield said his department could not comment on the particulars of the investigation, but said he is confident that his deputy acted properly.
"The officer's actions were justified," said Holifield, "and the Texas Rangers' investigation will prove that the officer used all proper measures."
Holifield said it was a vicious situation and said he hopes the investigation will help the deputy's mental healing process.
Representatives for the Texas Rangers were not available for comment Saturday.
The ordeal has rattled the neighborhood where it happened. Many residents did not wish to speak with The Courier because of the shock of the situation, and others said they were asked to not speak with the media by the investigating authorities until all their statements have been filed.
One neighbor did speak to The Courier, but did not wish to have her name printed.
"The young man was very friendly," said the neighbor of Welch.
The neighbor said she was waked right after the shooting when the woman living next door to Welch called her. The woman's husband was out of town so the neighbor went over to keep her company during the ordeal.
"I was out there all night," she said. "I still haven't been to bed since about two o'clock this morning."
The neighbor said that she had never known of any problems in the house where Welch lived, and no police had ever been called there that she knew of.
Other neighbors also said that Welch had been a nice young man and not known to cause trouble.
The Helmses did not stay in the house on Saturday on the advice of their lawyer.

 

[Doug]

Wow. That's crazy. How bad were you hurt?

That guy was given every chance to stop what he was doing. 100/100 police officers would have done the same thing, that's if they weren't killed when this guy lunged with the knife.

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by AstroVic:
Thanks, guys, for the support. I guess my point in posting is that I'm just trying to find someone else who has been through something like this to see how it's effected them.

---

First, thank-you for being there to protect us.

You sound like a caring human being going through H3ll because of what you had to do.

If you aren't already doing it, get some counseling.

All I have to go on is the article you quoted. Based on that limited amount of information, you should have used deadly force sooner, but I wasn't there and don't know how things were unraveling at the time.

Take care of youself, and get any help you need. Learn from what happened, and if your conclusion is that you should have done things differently, learn from that and go on.

 

[klingon20]

You will have a wound that will heal both physicaly and emotionaly, both wounds will leave a scar but you will heal.
As the hours days and years go by you will heal.
Make sure you have everthing documented and receive all the medical attention you need, sometime issues regarding this incident will pop up.

 

[Al]

Sorry to hear of your difficulty. I have not been in such a situation-but I think at my age I am comfortable with what I consider right and wrong.

You are in a position where you must get down in the mud and do what is necessary to protect our society and us in the process. You needed to make a critical decision in a matter of seconds. "Do gooders", Lawyers, and anti-violence people will second guess these actions for days, weeks, months...

You did the best you could under the circumstances (I'm sure). And those circumstances were obviously worse than most of us will ever know.

I would say that you should not keep second guessing your actions. The result will only be to raise self-doubt as to the correctness of your actions. It sounds likely that your actions may have saved an innocent life from this troubled young man in the future-Hold onto that. Good luck.

 

[Dan4510]

Astro Vic,

Rest assured that you did what was necessary. There is much literature out there to help you make it thru this.

The common reaction of a decent man on having to do this is horror, upset, and all the other negative things associated with killing.

Unfortunately in our limp wristed society today, killing of any kind is equated with the worst kind of killing. The type you did was in service of society and in protection of yourself. That type of killing should be supported much like one would support the killing of an animal that has rabies.

Obviously, this person chose to abandon all constraints of a civil society and got what he richly deserved. Why should you feel bad about it?

Dan

PS: Give me an email by pm, i have a good reading list that you might be interested in.

 

[ruking77]

I don't want to say one way or the other.

However, if the "story" is true, you are indeed a much more compassionate man than I. If I was in the same situation (and I am not obviously, nor can it be totally duplicated) if that guy would have so much as twitched his forearm muscles (within 1-6 ft, this is also a "lethal" range to do a bayonet thrusting maneuver), I would have double tapped. And if he was still in a position to offer a threat with the knife, I would have kept firing till the "alledged knife/allegded perp" threat was no longer there.

In addition to my military specialties, I also did my Master of Arts, psychological internship at a military hospital, health clinic. While accepted to a Ed.D program in the clinical psychology field, I did not do a doctorate. While it might be hard to do this in print, if it is not detrimental to the long term viability to your career, I would recommend seeking counseling, as it will be an open issue till you "retire" from that profession. From a treatment process management point of view, in the best/worst case it might be a sort of wake up call to either remain in or get out of the profession. Best of luck, and in ***** '(not sure why ***** was edited out) name may God bless you with healing grace.

[ December 01, 2004, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[Terry]

AstroVic, the fact that you are "feeling" is healthy. When you stop feeling thats a red flag problem.

You now need professional counsel, both the kind ruking wisely shared and Godly.

From a intellectual point of view you are fortunate to be alive. You delayed long enough from the record above to be a dead officer. I think that God had some more good work for you to perform in this life !

As others have done I thank you for your service to the community and will pray for you and place you and all involved on our prayer list at Church.

You have plenty of others that have been in your shoes that are returning from service overseas. I know the fact that it was so close to you personally is difficult.

Sincerely, Terry

 

[Matt_S]

For what it's worth, my faith would leave you perfectly justified in God's eyes. I'm sure I would have done the same thing you did, maybe sooner, if I was in that situation. Self defense has always been a valid reason to take a life. And what's more in this case, you almost certainly saved the lives of the two women he was attacking as well AND you did everything in your power to not have to shoot your weapon.

I know none of this makes it any easier, but I hope it helps somewhat. If you're a religious man, talk to a priest or minister. They should be able to help take the weight of your conscience off your shoulders.

 

[Pablo]

You did your job. I would say you went beyond the call to not terminate his existence earlier.

The second he attacked you, he waved his rights, the rules went away. He was asking to end it.

Don't take it personally, in fact I thank you for doing that for US ALL.

 

[JohnnyO]

Dittos. What Pablo said.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
Don't take it personally, in fact I thank you for doing that for US ALL.

---

Great point. I personally thank you for having had to do what you did.

 

[SAFN49]

AstroVic, you're 100% sure you did the right thing (most of us are 110% sure) - but that's realistically and intellectually sure - your heart, however, is grappling with the with the enormous emotional load of ending another human beings life. Your heart is not easily influenced by fact or reason - it seems to get hung up on things like, your innate humanity, your reverence for life, your devotion to family - things that are tough to verbalize, but are as powerful to your psyche, as fear or anger.
It is healthy to seek out others' experience and feelings - that will give you guide posts and markers, as you travel through your mind, in your seach for an acceptable, emotional resolution, to this terrible weight. You are, unfortunately, not going to resolve this, to your hearts' satisfaction, anytime soon - and unless you are an exceptional individual, you're not likely to do this by yourself. Well, actually that's not entirely true - ultimately, it is your "self" that has to provide the answers, but a professional can offer learned guidance. Do not attempt to internalize your feelings, thinking that, time by itself will eventually "heal all wounds" or you WILL become a "basketcase".
Please make sure, before you "go back out there", that you do have a SOLID handle on your feelings and that you and your heart, are of the same mind. Your profession does not allow the luxury, of a few seconds of thoughtful inquiry into the "proper" course of action, or heaven forbid, hesitation. You owe it to yourself, your loved ones, your brothers and the community you've sworn to protect - to be able to react, just as swiftly and surely, should there be a next time - as you did the last time.
You certainly don't need to hear it from me, but I'll say it anyway - you had NO OTHER CHOICE - you were not offered an alternate option. It was your turn to step into the dragons mouth - and you did - and you're still with us - share our happiness with THAT outcome and our relief that death was willing to settle for a life, other than yours.
My heartfelt wishes for your speedy return to an unburdened mind. Doug Tait.

 

[Flashlightboy]

Astro,

I am very glad to hear that you survived this vicious and brutal attack. Feelings of relief that you survived a violent encounter only to be replaced with feelings you're expressing is normal because taking a life isn't a natural act.

From the tone of your posts it is obvious that you did not choose the most lethal response as your first choice. Your training shows you applied the minimum amount of force you thought necessary and were forced to apply greater force responding to his lethal attack. You did not come to this conflict determined to take a life; the perpetrator and your assailant left you no other option and would have taken your life if you hadn't responded as you did.

I have never killed someone else and I do not wish it upon anyone. I am sorry to hear that you were injured but I'm even more grateful that you survived to talk about it. Thank you for your service.