Has anyone here gone full solar?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here are some actual use numbers from my electric coop on members who have solar and wind tied into their systems.

Renewable Energy Data


Cool! It looks like the larger output systems are the ones that provided the most savings. If I'm understanding this (and what others have said here...) the benefit mostly comes from the utility companies "buying back" the power, and not as much the amount saved by running appliances on the solar output? Could that total amount saved be higher if that's taken into account?
 
HemiHawk said:
The second reason is being able to have power in the event of outages. Of course I have a gas generator, but it sure would be nice to run some things for free during daylight hours. Where I am I get outages fairly often, but none that last more than a couple days. I've looked into instant on type generators, but it seems putting that money into a solar setup would be nearly as effective and have more daily benefits.

Some of you might not believe what I am about to say but ask your solar installation guy: When you have a grid tie system, ie you use electrical power from the grid and also have a solar system where you can sell power back to the grid, when the grid goes down so does your solar system. You cannot operate your solar system independent of the grid because the equipment has failsafe systems installed to make sure you don't electrocute the power line workers. It is not as simple as throwing a switch. At least that is the law in Canada. I'm thinking it's the law in the U.S. as well. If you do have a system that you can either sent power to the grid or not with a throw of a switch it probably does not meet code. I'll put on my flame suit now.

SF
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here are some actual use numbers from my electric coop on members who have solar and wind tied into their systems.

Renewable Energy Data


Cool! It looks like the larger output systems are the ones that provided the most savings. If I'm understanding this (and what others have said here...) the benefit mostly comes from the utility companies "buying back" the power, and not as much the amount saved by running appliances on the solar output? Could that total amount saved be higher if that's taken into account?


The "Savings" don't take into account the cost of your system. This is the popular misconception of solar power. You simply cannot compete with the electrical grid unless your power cost is really high. It's like your wife comes home and tells you how much money she saved on her new dress. What's the cost of power in KWhrs in PA ?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


Some of you might not believe what I am about to say but ask your solar installation guy: When you have a grid tie system, ie you use electrical power from the grid and also have a solar system where you can sell power back to the grid, when the grid goes down so does your solar system. You cannot operate your solar system independent of the grid because the equipment has failsafe systems installed to make sure you don't electrocute the power line workers. It is not as simple as throwing a switch. At least that is the law in Canada. I'm thinking it's the law in the U.S. as well. If you do have a system that you can either sent power to the grid or not with a throw of a switch it probably does not meet code. I'll put on my flame suit now.

SF



I believe it! I was reading that when the storms hit Florida residents with solar systems weren't allowed to make use of the solar energy because the grid was down. I get the reasoning, when they are working on the lines they don't want power being back-fed into the grid. Makes sense.

I will for sure make sure this is not the case, otherwise its a huge negative for me. Currently I have a setup on my circuit breaker that allows me to switch off grid power to run my generator. Its a must for me that I can do the same thing with the solar system. I realize when the powers down I wont be running much at night, but using it for my well pump or even to charge electronics is a must.

The alternative would be a "DIY" system, where I get the panels, ground rack for mounting, inverter, and batteries in a series. Looks like decent capacity systems like this would be $4,000-$10000. But that seems less than ideal.
 
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here are some actual use numbers from my electric coop on members who have solar and wind tied into their systems.

Renewable Energy Data


Cool! It looks like the larger output systems are the ones that provided the most savings. If I'm understanding this (and what others have said here...) the benefit mostly comes from the utility companies "buying back" the power, and not as much the amount saved by running appliances on the solar output? Could that total amount saved be higher if that's taken into account?


The "Savings" don't take into account the cost of your system. This is the popular misconception of solar power. You simply cannot compete with the electrical grid unless your power cost is really high. It's like your wife comes home and tells you how much money she saved on her new dress. What's the cost of power in KWhrs in PA ?


Oh absolutely. The immediate "savings" are really just paying back what was spent on the system. From some calculators or individual case studies i've seen it looks like a possible ROI of roughly 10 years. I forget the exact number of price/KWhrs but i'll log into my site and look it up.
 
Time Value of Money? You pay for the system in today's money and get the savings in tomorrow's
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here are some actual use numbers from my electric coop on members who have solar and wind tied into their systems.

Renewable Energy Data


Cool! It looks like the larger output systems are the ones that provided the most savings. If I'm understanding this (and what others have said here...) the benefit mostly comes from the utility companies "buying back" the power, and not as much the amount saved by running appliances on the solar output? Could that total amount saved be higher if that's taken into account?
My coop has net metering. After a one time $500 fee what ever is not consumed by your house at the time of production is paid back at the wholesale rate for the power, currently $0.0376 per KWH. The real savings is all the other charges that go with that KWH when delivered by the coop are not applied. $40 a month connection fee too.

My "bottom line" KWH charges are around $0.15. So the "savings" is the difference between the wholesale rate and the coop rate for every KWH I would produce and use.

The gravy would be the $0.0376 I get paid for the excess and what would pay for the system over time.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here are some actual use numbers from my electric coop on members who have solar and wind tied into their systems.

Renewable Energy Data

Thanks.
Solar Energy salesmen are like car salesmen. I am a renewable energy guy. What I have seen it doesn't meet expectations ($$$$$$$$)
 
You can get 1kwh or 2 kwh panel set ups off ebay that simply plug into the wall. Nothing else needed. What you generate you use or give away the surplus.
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


Some of you might not believe what I am about to say but ask your solar installation guy: When you have a grid tie system, ie you use electrical power from the grid and also have a solar system where you can sell power back to the grid, when the grid goes down so does your solar system. You cannot operate your solar system independent of the grid because the equipment has failsafe systems installed to make sure you don't electrocute the power line workers. It is not as simple as throwing a switch. At least that is the law in Canada. I'm thinking it's the law in the U.S. as well. If you do have a system that you can either sent power to the grid or not with a throw of a switch it probably does not meet code. I'll put on my flame suit now.

SF



I believe it! I was reading that when the storms hit Florida residents with solar systems weren't allowed to make use of the solar energy because the grid was down. I get the reasoning, when they are working on the lines they don't want power being back-fed into the grid. Makes sense.


It's not that they "aren't allowed", it's that they physically can't.

In my Oz examples, the powerwall can't, the Redback CAN, but only if configured for it.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You can get 1kwh or 2 kwh panel set ups off ebay that simply plug into the wall. Nothing else needed. What you generate you use or give away the surplus.


Ah, the old suicide plug solar...not sure that's what the OP was after.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You can get 1kwh or 2 kwh panel set ups off ebay that simply plug into the wall. Nothing else needed. What you generate you use or give away the surplus.


Ah, the old suicide plug solar...not sure that's what the OP was after.

Suicide?

They could charge batteries with their excess.
 
Here, people in the electrical field refer to a live end male plug as a "suicide plug".

ie a regular plug, you have to jam something in to find electrons, a "suicide plug" you find electrons just by grabbing it.
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot


Some of you might not believe what I am about to say but ask your solar installation guy: When you have a grid tie system, ie you use electrical power from the grid and also have a solar system where you can sell power back to the grid, when the grid goes down so does your solar system. You cannot operate your solar system independent of the grid because the equipment has failsafe systems installed to make sure you don't electrocute the power line workers. It is not as simple as throwing a switch. At least that is the law in Canada. I'm thinking it's the law in the U.S. as well. If you do have a system that you can either sent power to the grid or not with a throw of a switch it probably does not meet code. I'll put on my flame suit now.

SF



I believe it! I was reading that when the storms hit Florida residents with solar systems weren't allowed to make use of the solar energy because the grid was down. I get the reasoning, when they are working on the lines they don't want power being back-fed into the grid. Makes sense.

I will for sure make sure this is not the case, otherwise its a huge negative for me. Currently I have a setup on my circuit breaker that allows me to switch off grid power to run my generator. Its a must for me that I can do the same thing with the solar system. I realize when the powers down I wont be running much at night, but using it for my well pump or even to charge electronics is a must.

The alternative would be a "DIY" system, where I get the panels, ground rack for mounting, inverter, and batteries in a series. Looks like decent capacity systems like this would be $4,000-$10000. But that seems less than ideal.


Good points!
I was not aware, just did a search. During a power blackout your solar panels shut down on purpose, as I understand it, for two reasons.

Of course reason number 1 is to protect utility line workers and the danger of solar sending power though lines when a line is down.

Reason 2 is there is no place for the excess solar energy that your home does not use, to go if it just disconnected from the grid. Excess power would burn up components ect.
There is a switch that a German company makes that will allow you to throw a switch and supply power to its 1 electric outlet capable of 15 or 20 amps.

Option 3 is, not to be connected to the electric grid and this option doubles the cost (never mind the maintenance costs) using lead acid batteries.

I was never aware of this, I suspect most arent, good point, as far as us, we do not have panels but there are many here in South Carolina now and if I wanted them, my last concern would be power black outs, I think in 11 years since moving here the longest ever black out was 4 hours and except for that time dont think we ever had on longer then an hour.
Our modem and router has a UPS and I get all excited I can still use the internet when the lower goes out! But its always more like a few minutes and its back on ... *L*

One other thing that I know people do not think about, if your going to get them, you may want to have the roof replaced first if your roof is older, rather then get the panels only to find out they will have to be removed in a couple years to have a new roof put on, then the panels put back.
 
Last edited:
You would need by code either have to have only 'live when the grid is' or an auto disconnect transfer switch to use the panels disconnected from the grid. Same with auto start generators.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You would need by code either have to have only 'live when the grid is' or an auto disconnect transfer switch to use the panels disconnected from the grid. Same with auto start generators.


No panel can be legally installed if the panels do not disconnect when the grid goes down. So someone buying solar energy from a solar company does not have to worry about that part.

Solar panels can not power your home with solar energy if connected to a power gird during a black out unless you have a 15 to 20 thousand dollar battery back up system.
The grid safely takes away the excess power the panels produce, the reason your panels shut down during a power outage is because there is no place for the excess power to go, unless you are off grid and have batteries.

Im not an expert, just what I quickly researched, all makes sense now. I would think there may be a solution for this issue by now but if there is most likely would be thousands more.
 
Last edited:
There is always some electrical load the solar panels can feed when disconnected from the grid.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
There is always some electrical load the solar panels can feed when disconnected from the grid.


It wont power your house, we maybe talking about one circuit and an outlet?
Far cry to people, including me, thinking during a black out life goes on as normal for the 15,000 dollar plus panels we bought. :eek:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top