Has anyone found oil consumption info regarding Honda Motors?

[The_Oz]

I haven't been here in a while, so I have no idea if it's been discussed (I did crudely search though).

Just curious if any of you (especially Honda/Acura owners) have found any explanation about oil consumption issues....more in particular the VTEC engines: B16, B17, B18C, F20, K20, H22, D16, and any other Honda VTEC engines. Curious if it's truly the valve guides as a lot seem to suggest, or some other anomaly. Of course, most of these oil consumption issues happens when VTEC engagement is used often (VTEC system uses oil to push the pins).

Comments?

Oz

 

[Greg]

my oil consumption in my D15B2 (non vtec) is normal.

 

[Jay]

I hang out at the clubrsx forum where most of the members own Acura's 2L 200-hp K20A2 engine. Most of the engines don't consume excessive oil but some do. Acura won't fix the problem unless oil consumption is greater than 1qt/1000mi. Most of the oil burners have resigned to live with it. My take is that the cylinder bores are not quite up to spec on roundness, but that's just a guess.

My own base RSX has a very nicely wearing 160-hp K20A3 engine. Practically none of these are oil burners. The K20A3's get 5w-20, the K20A2's get 5w-30.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

the valve guides used on Hondas are top notch, not a worry. The valve seals can leak, but not that common of a problem either. The engines you mention do consume oil at high rpms and vtec operation (ones that use vtec), quite normal for these engines. Within the industry any oil consumption less than 1 litre per 1000 miles is considered normal, most Hondas I have owned used far less than that even under very hard use. For some reason I always had higher oil consumption with synthetic oils in my Hondas compared to conventional oils of the same vis.

 

[mph]

D16Z6 SOHC VTEC, over 125,000 miles:

Never observed any oil consumption (except for uncertainties in reading the dipstick). Longest interval was 5,800 miles on Mobil 1 5W-30. I'd say no more than 1/4 quart could be lost in that interval without it being obvious to me.

The car sees VTEC a lot (mountain driving, autocross). I've usually heard the "burning oil on VTEC" claims about DOHC VTEC, not SOHC.

 

[OneQuartLow]

My '90 Integra LS burned like a junker before 70K, but those were hard miles. I always thought it was underpowered which tells the story. Sold it without a teardown.

David

 

[Bror Jace]

I can't remember if my '90 Integra consumed much oil over its lifetime. I remember that for the first 20,000 miles it consumed less than a quart because I bought 1 quart for it and left it in my Chicago apartment when I moved out after a year and a half.

My '90 Civic DX 1.5L has had some "issues" over its 128,000 mile life but oil consumption wasn't one of them. It never used any oil for the first 100,000 or so miles ... and that was with 6,000 mile oil & filter intervals.

Then I switched from Mobil 1 Tri-Syn (slap happy oil) to Valvoline Synpower (Group III pretender) and consumption blossomed to as much as 1 quart between changes.

I went to Red Line and after a few months, consumption returned to zero.

With Schaeffer 7000 Supreme, consumption is negligible ... about 0.25qt in 4,000+ miles.

Among Hondas, the real oil guzzlers are/were Preludes. AS much as 1 qt in 1,000 miles.

-- Bror Jace

 

[Greg]

quote:

---

My '90 Civic DX 1.5L has had some "issues" over its 128,000 mile life but oil consumption wasn't one of them. It never used any oil for the first 100,000 or so miles ... and that was with 6,000 mile oil & filter intervals.

---

same car!

except a year older.

current 'issues' i'm facing are some rust along back wheel trim, contacts in driver's seat belt are loose or something causing the beeper to work intermittently and a busted left outer CV joint.

[ December 23, 2002, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Greg ]

 

[The_Oz]

Thanks for the replies fellas:

Idrinkmotoroil For the time being, I refuse to believe that any engine (Wankel Rotary excluded) should be consuming too much oil provided it is in tip-top shape. The Technical bulletin that I read in the S2000 International forum regarding the F20 seems to indicate that Honda was not expecting the F20 engines to consume more than 1qt/1000mi, which is becoming a frequent occurence based on the threads I've been reading there. 2/10th of a quart would be the max limit for me under normal driving conditions.

BTW, how do you know that the Honda OEM valve guides are top notch?

JayYou bring up a good theory regarding out-of-roundness of the cylinder walls. But, wouldn't that mean that any engine would suffer the same fate? Or is the rod-ratio really do play an important role in a 4-cylinder Honda?

I'm curious guys, if the VTEC system itself dumps the oil somewhere else - besides the sump. I highly doubt the oil is experiencing high temps when pushing the pins to activate the wild lobe. And, if I'm not mistaken, the oil exits where it entered. Could it be dumped into the PCV system and reinjected through the intake? Is it just merely severe high temps. that the oil is experiencing therefore evaporating? Just some thoughts.

Regards,

Oz

 

[S2000driver]

I've had about 8 Honda/Acura products, some of which have had over 100,000 miles on them. Until my S2000, none have used a measureable amount of oil between changes.

The S2000 has those FRM cylinder walls which require a longer break-in with increased oil consumption during that time. I have kept track of my consumption and turned it into a rate quarts/1000 miles. At first it used 0.5 qt/Kmi, then I watched it linearly decrease to 0.1 qt/Kmi at the current time (7,000 miles on the car now).

 

[Quick_lude]

I personally use about 1L/every 6,000km in my Prelude. But there are others in our club that use as much as 1L/1000km or more. Anyone using more than that had gotten a free short block from Honda. With the H22a there were two different piston ring suppliers. The theory is that one of those suppliers did not produce very good rings, hence some engines burn enourmous amounts of oil. Otherwise 1L/5-6K km seems to be the norm, especially if you VTEC a lot.

 

[edwardh1]

My 89 and 91 Civics were run to 150k miles and never used any between changes.

 

[HondaRD]

I agree with the earlier post that preludes seems to consume more oil than other models with the H22A motor. I have owned a prelude and now own an integra with the B18C motor. My friends own a Del sol, a civic, and preludes also. Pretty much all the vtec motors do consume oil, some at a faster rate than other. But considering that all of us drive into vtec quite often, it really depends on the driving habits. But from the different types of oils I have tried this is what I have concluded. Valvoline Maxlife and Castrol GTX show little to no consumption in the prelude and integra using 3k intervals. Castrol Syntec and Valvoline synpower showed about 0.5 qts within a 3k interval in the Prelude. Mobil drive clean show about 1 qt every 2k in the prelude. Mobil 1 had much higher consumption rates using 10w-30 in the integra. About 1qt in 1.5k mi. My friends with his 93 prelude and 96 del sol vtec are pretty happy with GTX and are going to stick with it. All I can say is the 97 prelude burns the most oil out of any other honda i have seen. Well not counting the 90-91 prelude with the 2.1L motor. I have just recently changed the oil in the integra using mobil 1 but with 10w-30 and
0w-40. I don't think mixing viscosity using the same brand/type of oil is harmful. Since the car takes 4.25 qts I mixed 2.75 qts of 10w-30 with 1.5 qts of 0w-40. This would give a visc of 11.42 at 100 deg C and 68.00 at 40 deg C. I don't know if this really will make a difference, I just tried to use simple math and wishful logic to match these visc numbers to that of oil that didn't show much oil consumption and wanted the numbers to be on the higher end of the 30 wt scale. I will check the level at 500 mile intervals to see what happends as I am a bit curious, since past posts say people burn more oil with 0w-30 than they did with 10w-30. Now is they had something like Schaeffers or redline at Walmart, I would try those in a heartbeat and probably be very happy with those, but since I love my cars and drive it pretty hard sometimes to a redline of 8100 rpm, adding a little mobil 1 is still worth it to me.

 

[Quick_lude]

My next oil change I will try the M1 0w40. If I keep burning oil at the same rate then I guess it's just engine design and the fact that I VTEC a lot, especially in the summer.

 

[BrewCityR]

My 1994 Integra GS-R comsumed M1 5w30 at a rate of 1-2 quarts per 3000 miles depending on how much I got into VTEC. Switched to 10w30 M1 and consumption was reduced slightly. Switched again to Amsoil 10w30 (~138k miles on the motor and car) and consumption was nearly eliminated. But, then I sold the car in July 2002

and bought this...

... which flows Shaeffer 10w30 with K&N/M1 oil filter.

 

[JDG33]

My 99 Prelude (H22A4) guzzles oil. It has since day one. Probably use 1 qt / 1000 miles. Many fellow H22A4 motor owners have the same problem.

 

[HondaRD]

That's a nice TypeR. It look to be a 1997 model, which is the best year for those IMHO.

 

[Quick_lude]

quote:

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Originally posted by JDG33:
My 99 Prelude (H22A4) guzzles oil. It has since day one. Probably use 1 qt / 1000 miles. Many fellow H22A4 motor owners have the same problem.

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If the consumption is that severe and you are still under warranty do an oil test. This way you can maybe get a short block out of it. There is no way any engine should be using that much oil imo, VTEC or not.

 

[The_Oz]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quick_lude:
If the consumption is that severe and you are still under warranty do an oil test. This way you can maybe get a short block out of it. There is no way any engine should be using that much oil imo, VTEC or not.

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I agree. My B16 hasn't shown any drop in oil consumption using Havoline Synthetic 5W40 except for every time I wipe that dipstick clean when I'm checking the level

However, I do not engage VTEC that often, and I do not drag or autox the vehicle.

The problem I find is when people are saying "I'm losing 1qt/1000mi. of oil and it's not leaking or burning" That stuff baffles me.

Oz

 

[oilboy28]

My 2002 Honda CRV with the 2.4L DOHC VTEC burns no oil. I am using ford motorcracked semi syn 5w20 (waiting for M1 0w20) and have 10,000 miles. I watch it like crazy because my other car is a Saturn, and well you all know how oil thirsty they are.