Hamilton the only F1 driver to reach same level as Senna - Berger

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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/142910/hamilton-the-only-driver-on-senna-level--berger Gerhard Berger says Lewis Hamilton is the only Formula 1 driver he has seen who he would rank on the same level as his former McLaren team-mate Ayrton Senna. The Austrian said he rates five-time world champion Hamilton above all the other title winners he raced against or has watched. "For me there have always been great champions, like Nelson [Piquet], Niki [Lauda], [Alain] Prost, like Michael. "But there was always one thing above them, Ayrton. Now I see Lewis in the same league."
 
I don't buy it. Put Verstappen or Vettel in the exact same car with no team orders and see what happens. Schumacher dominated with Ferrari because they had the best Cars most of the time minus the years Alonso, Villeneuve, Hill and Mika and Kimi had their good years. Plus the one year Button shocked the world with Ross Braun. F1 For the most part is boring now IMO.
 
Not a fan of Louis's offtrack persona however he has ability to pull a rabbit out of his hat at the key moment. That to me is what makes him a great driver. He did it teamed with Alonso and he did it with Nico and his current teammate as well. Vettel? He was part of a planetary alignment at team Red Bull and have you seen him lately doing amazing things with a slower car? Bit bored with it myself as well as it transforms into a mee too media product.
 
Originally Posted by JC1
I don't buy it. Put Verstappen or Vettel in the exact same car with no team orders and see what happens. Schumacher dominated with Ferrari because they had the best Cars most of the time minus the years Alonso, Villeneuve, Hill and Mika and Kimi had their good years. Plus the one year Button shocked the world with Ross Braun. F1 For the most part is boring now IMO.
Exactly right. Hamilton was able to position himself with the right team, at the right time. That's 90% of being successful in Formula 1 today. Schumacher did it with Ferrari. Vettel did it with Red Bull. Alonso did the exact opposite. He made a horrible move from Ferrari to McLaren. All of these guys are more than capable of multiple World Driving Championships, IF they are members of the right team at the right time. Look at Nico Hulkenberg. He is an extremely talented driver. He just could never put a good ride together. Give him Vettel's or Hamilton's seat, and he would do as much or more with it. Rosberg was a mediocre driver at best. But he still beat out Hamilton in 2016 for the World Driving Chapionship. He couldn't have done it in any other car. The team, car, and timing is what makes F1 champions today. It also makes it boring. Charles Leclerc is going to win a lot of races. Not because he is a fantastic driver. But because he was lucky enough to land a seat with Ferrari. Because of that, regardless of what he does, he is all but guaranteed to finish ahead of Kimi, who he replaced. And who is far more talented and experienced. But Alfa Romeo isn't Ferrari.
 
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Originally Posted by E150GT
I like Hamilton but let's put him in a car of the Senna period and see how he does
His wrists would be sore... lol.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Exactly right. Hamilton was able to position himself with the right team, at the right time. That's 90% of being successful in Formula 1 today. Schumacher did it with Ferrari. Vettel did it with Red Bull.
As much as it galls me to admit it, Hamilton is pretty amazing. Nonetheless, your points are very well taken. An Autosport writer, if I recall correctly, wrote a piece a number of weeks back and said that in his view, it's something like 45% the car 45% the luck and 10% the driver. There's even a premium article over there right now that makes a similar valid point. If you switch Kubica and Hamilton right now, Kubica isn't going to storm off with the championship, nor is Hamilton going to suddenly wind up on the podium in Williams colours by sheer force of will. As for fitness, well, Hamilton's wrists might have been sore getting used to a Senna era car, but Keke Rosberg was far from a picture of fitness and healthy habits and seemed to survive. wink
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by JC1
I don't buy it. Put Verstappen or Vettel in the exact same car with no team orders and see what happens. Schumacher dominated with Ferrari because they had the best Cars most of the time minus the years Alonso, Villeneuve, Hill and Mika and Kimi had their good years. Plus the one year Button shocked the world with Ross Braun. F1 For the most part is boring now IMO.
Exactly right. Hamilton was able to position himself with the right team, at the right time. That's 90% of being successful in Formula 1 today. Schumacher did it with Ferrari. Vettel did it with Red Bull. Alonso did the exact opposite. He made a horrible move from Ferrari to McLaren. All of these guys are more than capable of multiple World Driving Championships, IF they are members of the right team at the right time. Look at Nico Hulkenberg. He is an extremely talented driver. He just could never put a good ride together. Give him Vettel's or Hamilton's seat, and he would do as much or more with it. Rosberg was a mediocre driver at best. But he still beat out Hamilton in 2016 for the World Driving Chapionship. He couldn't have done it in any other car. The team, car, and timing is what makes F1 champions today. It also makes it boring. Charles Leclerc is going to win a lot of races. Not because he is a fantastic driver. But because he was lucky enough to land a seat with Ferrari.
I'm respecting Rosberg more since the 2018 season. I expected Bottas to put more pressure on Hamilton as team leader than Rosberg did. But Bottas' effort last year wasn't as strong as Rosberg had generated in the years he and Hamilton were teamed in the hybrid Mercs.
 
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Hamilton is clearly an all time best. Arguably top three. All the greats in every team sport had the fortune of a complementary cast.
 
Originally Posted by JC1
I don't buy it. Put Verstappen or Vettel in the exact same car with no team orders and see what happens. Schumacher dominated with Ferrari because they had the best Cars most of the time minus the years Alonso, Villeneuve, Hill and Mika and Kimi had their good years. Plus the one year Button shocked the world with Ross Braun. F1 For the most part is boring now IMO.
Ferrari wasn't a great car when Schumacher joined them, I remember reading about Schumacher providing the sort of feedback the team needed to improve the car and become a winner. I remember watching him in one race when the cv axle dropped out of the car coming out of the pits, I don't think any driver today can hold a candle to him. Schumacher 7 championships, Hamilton 5 and Berger 0, nuff said.
 
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Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by JC1
I don't buy it. Put Verstappen or Vettel in the exact same car with no team orders and see what happens. Schumacher dominated with Ferrari because they had the best Cars most of the time minus the years Alonso, Villeneuve, Hill and Mika and Kimi had their good years. Plus the one year Button shocked the world with Ross Braun. F1 For the most part is boring now IMO.
Ferrari wasn't a great car when Schumacher joined them, I remember reading about Schumacher providing the sort of feedback the team needed to improve the car and become a winner. I remember watching him in one race when the cv axle dropped out of the car coming out of the pits, I don't think any driver today can hold a candle to him. Schumacher 7 championships, Hamilton 5 and Berger 0, nuff said.
Trav you are correct, Schumacher did help Ferrari dominate after a rough start when the cars werent reliable. The true F1 fans and followers knew that he was the best person to provide the feedback for car setup also back then. Remember the one year when the tires had to last the entire race. Put in as a cost saving measure.
 
Schumacher was definitely an innovator, and that cannot be forgotten. He certainly brought driver fitness to the forefront, and you guys already covered how he could deliver feedback.
 
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Originally Posted by Garak
Schumacher was definitely an innovator, and that cannot be forgotten. He certainly brought driver fitness to the forefront, and you guys already covered how he could deliver feedback.
Agreed, and to me, he and Senna are still one and two. For now.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Rosberg was a mediocre driver at best. But he still beat out Hamilton in 2016 for the World Driving Chapionship.
Don't forget that Lewis had a lot of DNFs that year due to mechanical issues. And Lewis actually had more first place finishes that year than Nico did! It's just that Nico didn't have all those DNFs so he had more points. If they still had the double points rule for the last race, Lewis actually would have won the championship that year.
 
Have not been a Lewis fan but greatly respect his talent. His maturation as a person has gathered pace and I hope that continues. As was mentioned kawaiguy454 (hope I got that right) Lewis does pull the rabbit from the hat occasionally. In fact I've sometimes wondered if he lays back on purpose during the later stages so as to make a more dramatic finish. Could it be that he is good enough and successful enough to be bored out there at times? Makes me smile.
 
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Call it whatever you want, luck or skills or a combination of both. Hamilton just seems to be able to have the right balance of aggression, timing, spatial awareness, and calculation when racing wheel to wheel. I saw comparisons being made to Verstappen but his moves are most of the times optimistic to say the least. Nice Rosberg did beat Hamilton to become the champion, with or without DNFs, he has to be there to win it fair and square. But are we rating a driver based on only one season or his whole career?
 
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It seems Lewis does have a better personal "quali mode" than most, but in the last few years he rarely makes any mistakes that hurt his race results. Is he better than Senna was? Probably Lewis is better at getting the best result out of his car consistently, but in Senna's era the driver seemed to make more of a difference and he got lap times and results that were remarkable given his car.
 
Indylan makes a good point. Lewis, like this generation of drivers, is a *scientist*. Senna was an *artist*. Scientists discover and use repeatable procedures. Artist talent comes from inside and can't be easily duplicated if at all. The last guy I had that feeling about was Montoya. I even occasionally saw what I thought was artistry in Kobayashi. Others will say Schuey. Vettel has the passion which I love but just like there are no German comedians, German artists are thin on the ground. YMMV.
 
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