Gulf Coast 01 and MG 750 Comparison

[acewiza]

I know Ralph can elaborate completely here, but I'm soliciting everyone who might be familiar with these filters to help me choose. I want a big, truly submicronic filter to install on a Dodge Cummins pickup.

There seems to be some doubt about PT (paper towel) efficiency, due to the lower density. I was wondering if that could be offset in the Gulf Coast's favor by rolling your own so to speak. My idea is to use the center pull media re-rolled for the Gulf Coast. Or possibly just re-rolling ordinary PT more tightly.

Is it possible to get a Gulf Coast 01 set up this way to be competitive with Ralph's MG-750? I realize the capacity is less, but still far greater than the small Frantz or MG30.

Thanks for your inputs!

 

[acewiza]

I'm starting to get the impression this is just a dumb idea and nobodys even going to comment....

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, no, I don't think it's a dumb idea ..patience, acewiza ..patience. I think it would be dandy to have that big filter in there and not have to service it as often as an MG.

Ralph doesn't get here every day.

..but let me ask you this..

I thought the advantage of the center pull PT was that you didn't have the center core to deal with (I assumed that the term "center pull" meant just that ..that you pull from the center core and not the exterior of the roll). If you're rerolling it ..why not use regular PT

 

[LarryL]

If you use TP you'll get a great filter. It just has to be changed often. If you need more capacity, I'd think about two TP filters in parallel. The theory might be that if they are doing a good job you would change them less often. In 1970 I put a three-stacker on a Ford van. It's like three rolls in parallel. Never did a used oil analysis but the oil looked pretty clean all the time. I used 10w-40 oil and in five years changed it twice. Changing the three-stacker was almost like an oil change and I changed the TP every 5k miles. Her's one on ebay... 3-stacker

 

[acewiza]

Yeah, I saw that three-stacker - interesting. The two in parallel idea addresses the capacity issue, they'd still be needing changing much more frequently, though. My reasoning for the center-pull media is because it is more dense than the PT.

My two requirements are good sub-micronic filtration and "in"frequency of service. I'm basically lazy

I've seen people on a diesel forum I participate in commenting on changing Frantz's every 1k miles! No way I'm gonna do that.

So you think the Gulf Coast might meet my requirement with maybe a little extra media prep? Ralph's MG750 is certainly the state of the art, maybe overkill, and I think a little pricey. Still pondering my decision....

 

[Gary Allan]

I'm lazy too. One alternative that I've used ..but only because I got the housing free, was using DOE (double open end) filters. The cotton wound with stainless steel center tubes are quite reasonable ..even at McMaster/Grainger prices.

I've got one of the more expensive ones, a PALL. Shultz gave me a great orientation ..and Filter Guy hooked me up with a small filter company in Texas (I think) that made me up a case (8 filters) of 1um 3.5"X20" to fit it. I got side tracked with my full flow testing ..but the 3um that I was using really kept my Carvan's engine oil crystal clear. Estimates, based on whatever the holding capacity of the filters (whatever it was) were that it would probably be good for over 25k

Look on page 335 on McMaster-Carr's website Then PM filter guy for a reasonable source (I have their card somewhere) for custom filters. It cost be under $60 for the case of 8. The 2" filters (same um and length) would have been more to the case and cost about the same (if you get what I saying here).

Here was my quick installation. I cleaned up the anti-McGyver arrangement later. I just did "quick", not necessarily fancy

 

[LarryL]

Another filter with an element similar to Gary's filter is the Oil Guard filter. The replacement elements are cheap enough, and there is very little makeup oil to be added at change time, much less that a lot of other filters. Also they publish some test data and I don't see other sites doing the same.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

Great setup Gary. It proves that you can do things for your car or truck because you want to and ignore questions of return on investment and other silly financial considerations.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, Louie, I do get laughed at by the local spark plugger types (older street rodders). I merely say that they don't need roller rockers or crate 502s or worked 700R transmissions ..or Dana 60's ..to drive around town. They do it because they enjoy it and think its fun. I say ...that's the way I feel about the smacked arse stuff I do.

Yes, there are plenty of distractions that have no rate of return except the enjoyment that you get out of them. That's hard to quantify in $$ and cents

I am thankful that I got this setup for salvage at my closing plant. It's a very expensive setup, otherwise.

 

[RalphPWood]

The MG-750 is as good as TP as far as being submicronic. The difference is the element is two rolls of Scott Center pull paper towels. The Center Pull paper towels have a core that is removed. Then you start pulling the towels from the center. In the filter I tear the core and leave it in the roll. the oil filters from the outside to the middle. Similar to the filters that came on the old cars. The rolls are 8" tall be 8" wide. The housing takes two stacked on top of each other. There is no unwinding unless you get a larger roll. Several companies make them. The core is designed to be easy to tear. When I get thru with the filter it is equal to about three 0-1s, 5 three stackers or about 15 Motor Guards or Frantz filters. I needed a filter that could handle a 750 HP Caterpillar marine engine or a small pickup. The housings are make for Cummings Fleetguard by the Nelson Filter Company. The last one was a little larger and ended up on an over the road truck. I installed a sintered bronze secondary filter on it. This is to make sure no paper fibers generated by tearing the core ends up in the engine. The stock chopped newspaper element has a built in secondary filter in the element.
These filters will beat any filter mentioned on this forum because of the element not only being submicronic but also being large. I orifice it down with the same size orifice as the Motor Guard. If everything is equal the large filter will beat the small filter. I found a good place on the Ford along side the drive shaft. The trucker that bought the MG-750 is a Frantz user that was looking for a Frantz three stacker. If you want a filter system as good as the MG-750 and like to change messy filters install 5 three stackers.

Ralph

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

Ralph, on a standard gasoline powered pickup, how often would you have to change the elements in a MG-750? This sounds like a BITOG filter setup.

 

[RalphPWood]

I don't know how far you could go with a gasoline engine. I got some very good oil analysis reports on a Cummins 8.3 at 1000 hrs. When you have a filter that holds about 4 gallons of oil you have to be careful about running the oil out of the engine filling it up. On the Ford I shut down the engine a couple of times and top off the engine. You could go 30,000 miles and see how the oil looks. I put a little larger orifice on the filters for the twin 750 HP Cat marine engines. Normally I would put a 1/16" orifice at the inlet on the smaller engines. That makes the filter filter at the same rate at the Motor Guard. If you put the orifice at the outlet it will take all your oil pressure until the filter gets full. I found a Luberfiner at a truck salvage. I don't think I will be able to get two rolls of Scott Center pull towels in it. I might drop in a spacer and use one roll. I might put a heating element in the bottom and use it to filter waste cooking oil. I just can't seem to stay stock.

Ralph

 

[LarryL]

Sounds like the problem in a regular gas engine would be that you might thake forever to get all that oil up to temp.

 

[Gary Allan]

I dunno, LarryL

Your flow rate through the bypass is slow and low ..so your main sump should heat up a little slower then normal. You're probably adding less then 10% of your flow rate in cold oil. The only thing that I reason would be different would be how long it takes you to exchange the filter's volume as you're going along.

Without knowing the starting temp you can't figure the impact ..but you should be able to say that 90% of the oil flow will be heated normally ...at least I think you can

IIRC, my mega filter up top there added about 2.5 gallons to my 5 quart sump. It reached op temp (I didn't have an oil temp gauge at the time) normally ..or so it seemed (hot canister) and normal/lower pressures. That was over triple the normal sump volume

It wouldn't be for a short trip type though. Not unless they also wanted to swap the sump out every so often ...which would kinda defeat the purpose of it. At that point you're literally servicing the filter instead of it giving service to your engine.

 

[LarryL]

Gary, that's a good thought. So you would be just adding clean clool oil, a little at a time, and later you'd be adding clean warm oil. A setup like this might be the answer to long service intervals, and with some changes in the rest of the engine package you'd have a vehicle that would go 100k miles with two filter changes and almost no other service.