Group IV oils

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13
Location
Pennsylvania
Hello forum, Long-time reader, first-time poster. I drive an '02 Acura RSX Type-S, and I'm trying to squeeze every bit of engine life, power, and fuel economy out of it that I can. First car I've ever bought with a loan and I want it to be worth the money ;\) Anyway, I'm not going to ask for specifics, because from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) usually if you're getting the oil that provides the best protection, you aren't getting the one that provides the best power/fuel economy. What I'm looking for is a list of which oils I can buy that are true Group IV oils - not extra-extra-processed dino oil, like what they market in this wonderful country as "full synthetic". Would I be correct in saying that AMSOIL, Royal Purple, and Castrol's new Edge line are all Group IV? EDIT: Just found Schaeffer and I'd like to add that to the list in that last sentence. I'd also like to add another question - which of these contain molybdenum? I do have a bit of blow-by and I'm thinking that might help take care of it.
 
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Messages
656
Location
Portland, OR
I had bought an rsx the first week they came out. Woundrful car shifted and drove like a dream! Classic japanese design. Shouldent have sold it but I hit a cyote and took out the radiator and it over heated and I just dident want to keep it because I wasent sure how hot the motor got. Anyways with all that said, that motor dosent really "need" a group IV oil. Its just a standard honda motor as I recall. I think it used 5-20?? I would use PP 5-20 as it works well in hondas. Or if it has a lot of miles and if the person who you bought it from drove the [censored] out of it like I did mine (thinking back to cruising 120mph with my college girlfriend doing inappropriate things) or if your going to drive the [censored] out of it you cant go wrone with amsoil SSO 0-30. You know maybe this summer I'll look for one in good shape to buy man those were good times!
 
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25,046
Location
ON, Canada eh?
I'm note sure about the Castrol Edge line, but you are correct with Amsoil, RP. I think Amsoil SSO 0w30 would be a great fit for your Acura. Also how do you know you have blowby? Could it be a bad PCV or stuck ring? What kind of mileage do you have?
 

Floppie

Thread starter
Messages
13
Location
Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: ryland
I had bought an rsx the first week they came out. Woundrful car shifted and drove like a dream! Classic japanese design. Shouldent have sold it but I hit a cyote and took out the radiator and it over heated and I just dident want to keep it because I wasent sure how hot the motor got. Anyways with all that said, that motor dosent really "need" a group IV oil. Its just a standard honda motor as I recall. I think it used 5-20?? I would use PP 5-20 as it works well in hondas. Or if it has a lot of miles and if the person who you bought it from drove the [censored] out of it like I did mine (thinking back to cruising 120mph with my college girlfriend doing inappropriate things) or if your going to drive the [censored] out of it you cant go wrone with amsoil SSO 0-30. You know maybe this summer I'll look for one in good shape to buy man those were good times!
Yeah it's a pretty sweet little car. Honda recommends 5w20 for the base model, 5w30 for the Type-S. And I know it doesn't "need" group IV, but I do drive the [censored] out of it ;\) had it up to 130 in 5th, and that was before I got my cold air intake, I haven't had a chance to take it out now and see what I can do.
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
I'm note sure about the Castrol Edge line, but you are correct with Amsoil, RP. I think Amsoil SSO 0w30 would be a great fit for your Acura. Also how do you know you have blowby? Could it be a bad PCV or stuck ring? What kind of mileage do you have?
I've opened the crankcase after driving for a while (not necessarily driving hard...but not necessarily not driving hard either) and seen the vapor. I have also found motor oil in my intake, both when I changed the air filter shortly after buying it and (to a greater extent) when I pulled the whole stock airbox off on Sunday to install the cold air intake. There is a hose that goes from the crankcase to the intake, but from what I understand that's only used when there's extra pressure built up in the crankcase - for example, when vapor and fuel are getting past the rings. It has roughly 91.5k on it now - I bought it in November at 80k, and replaced the PCV valve at 87667 (January 28), hoping it'd resolve the issue, but no go. The previous owner did a lot of electrical mods (interior lighting, extra stereo equipment in the trunk, etc) to the car (actually it still has a battery draw that I can't find, he really didn't know wtf he was doing) - so I'd say there's a pretty good chance that he ran it hard as well. I'm just hoping he followed proper break-in procedures. I know I'm not in THAT bad of shape with what I'm doing, because the owner's manual recommends a 10k OCI with "normal" driving, and 5k with "hard" driving, and I do it every 3k-ish. But, to use D&D terminology, I am looking to minmax here, so every little thing I can do counts ;\) Also, thanks for the speedy replies.
 
Messages
656
Location
Portland, OR
ya use the amsoil SSO 0w30! If the guy who had it before you added lights and subs and stuff he drove it like he stole it and probably never changed the oil or maintained very well. Those are great cars and there are no more left and just like the integra all of the cars are ending up in retard highscoolers hands that run them into the ground. I bet if you maintain that car it will be worth something some day because all the others will be destroyed. I would use SSO and change out every fluid in that car! no joke it would be well worth it and not cost a lot of money if you did it your self. How many miles are on it? 91k I would definatly change every fluid and probably do a valve adjustment!
 
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Floppie

Thread starter
Messages
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Location
Pennsylvania
Yeah, fluids are being changed one by one - the brake/clutch fluid are completely filthy. And a valve adjustment is on the list too ;\) And yeah, I have every intention of treating this car like it's made of gold ;\) especially with 43 months left on the loan. Since that looks to be the general consensus, I'll put in an order for some AMSOIL signature 0w30. That aside, could someone point me in the direction of an additive that's sold at most/all Pep Boys or Autozone locations that contains molybdenum? I had Lucas synthetic in with the last change, but that's more of a stabilizer than anything else, and it doesn't really look like it's worth the amount of money that I spent on it.
 
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Messages
25,046
Location
ON, Canada eh?
 Originally Posted By: ryland
skip the additives bro. You dont need them ever, especially with the amsoil SSO! Additives hurt not help for the most part.
+1 \:\!
 

Floppie

Thread starter
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13
Location
Pennsylvania
I'm just trying to get that blowby taken care of without having the motor rebuilt and rings replaced. Because I have a specific goal in mind with the additive, I was planning on doing a short change interval for the first couple changes to offset the dilution it causes - I know that it will reduce the life and quality of the oil, but like I said, specific goals and all. That aside, you'd recommend AMSOIL's Ea filter to go along with their oil, right?
 
Messages
656
Location
Portland, OR
it is a great filter but maybe if your worried about the rings you should use a napa gold and pennz yb and ARX. Then a change of pennz platnium on a napa gold then finaly use the SSO with a Ea filter and your motor would be prestine!
 
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1,335
Location
Arizona
Agree with ryland here. I have used ARX on several cars and it has worked great for one with sticky rings. I used PP for the treatment along with the rinse. Im now using SSO in one of the cars with an EaO filter and its running great. I think oils clean a little from experience but for sticky rings ARX is king.
 
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1,928
Location
Ohio,USA
Castrol EDGE isn't Group IV. They use enough PAO that they can market that fact, but that's it. They list highly refined crude as 90-95% of the product.
 
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4,622
Location
Western Washington
 Originally Posted By: ryland
it is a great filter but maybe if your worried about the rings you should use a napa gold and pennz yb and ARX. Then a change of pennz platnium on a napa gold then finaly use the SSO with a Ea filter and your motor would be prestine!
+1 Although I've never used ARX, this is how I would approach it if the need came up. You want to use dino oil for the clean and rinse phase, then switch to syn oil.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
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44,860
Location
New Jersey
There is little to a "value proposition" of an oil being mainly group IV/V vs. a good group III. The best oil is that which meets the manufacturers' specs and gives the best UOA results. That may well be PP or synpower!
 
Messages
4,622
Location
Western Washington
 Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There is little to a "value proposition" of an oil being mainly group IV/V vs. a good group III.
Unless you start running extended OCIs, but even then it borders on being questionable.
 

Floppie

Thread starter
Messages
13
Location
Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: ryland
it is a great filter but maybe if your worried about the rings you should use a napa gold and pennz yb and ARX. Then a change of pennz platnium on a napa gold then finaly use the SSO with a Ea filter and your motor would be prestine!
This is what I'll go ahead and do then. I'm coming up on oil change time here shortly, probably do it right after I hit the dyno. Is ARX sold at Pep Boys/Autozone or would I do well to order it? And I might extend my OCI a bit with the AMSOIL. The first change with it in there will be 3k, and if it comes out clean I'll extend it to save some money - stuff is expensive after all ;\)
 
Messages
25,046
Location
ON, Canada eh?
You can only get ARX from the website as far as I know... Do a clean/rinse phase as per the directions with a good dino like Pennzoil YB. Then put in the SSO and you can go at least 5-7K without issue. Then drain and refill with SSO and see if you can go further with a UOA. Good Luck!
 
Messages
5,215
Location
Houston, Tx, USA
 Originally Posted By: Floppie
This is what I'll go ahead and do then. I'm coming up on oil change time here shortly, probably do it right after I hit the dyno. Is ARX sold at Pep Boys/Autozone or would I do well to order it? And I might extend my OCI a bit with the AMSOIL. The first change with it in there will be 3k, and if it comes out clean I'll extend it to save some money - stuff is expensive after all ;\)
For a short OCI a Mobil 1 filter may be superior to an Ea. This is what analysis with particle counts ( http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1461244#Post1461244 ) has suggested. We don't have any test results at long OCIs, but the case has been made that an Ea may have more capacity for dirt, making it the better candidate for extended OCI. Otherwise, it sounds like a plan.
 
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