What's about the bottom average morning temp the average group III 10w30 should be used? Looking for rough estimates, not the whole, "Well give us the CCS viscosity and the pour point and this and that."
Group III 10w30...how cold?
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Actually, I'm seriously considering running a Grp III 10W-30 this winter in my Chevy 5.3L Vortec. I'm going to stay away from PAO!
The Havoline 10W-30 Synthetic has caught my attention with a -47F pour point and 4100 cPoise @ -25C cold crank rating.
Since this oil beats most dino 5W-30 pour points by 8-10 degrees F, the cold start performance will also be better.
The last time it was -25F here in southern Wisconsin, I started an F-150 on dino 5W-30.
And, as MNgopher commonly reports, his MN neighbors are starting at -25F with just any 5W-30 dino fill from the local quicklube.
So, for the Havoline 10W-30 Grp III Synthetic, -30F to -35F starts should be within the capability of the oil.
The Havoline 10W-30 Synthetic has caught my attention with a -47F pour point and 4100 cPoise @ -25C cold crank rating.
Since this oil beats most dino 5W-30 pour points by 8-10 degrees F, the cold start performance will also be better.
The last time it was -25F here in southern Wisconsin, I started an F-150 on dino 5W-30.
And, as MNgopher commonly reports, his MN neighbors are starting at -25F with just any 5W-30 dino fill from the local quicklube.
So, for the Havoline 10W-30 Grp III Synthetic, -30F to -35F starts should be within the capability of the oil.
Blue99 - A temp of -25C is equal to -13F. I'm quessing you mean -25F cold pumpability temp.
Even so, starting at -25F to -35F with a dino oil with no tank heater or oil heater is right on the edge of what a dino oil can do. Why subject your engine to that torture?
Full synthetics can go to -45F (some even lower) and still pump well and protect your expensive engine.
80% of the people who run synthetics get little benefit from the cold start feature, it is too warm where they live. Now, someone who could really benefit from the cold starting properties of a synthetic and they decide to use a Group III. I just don't understand.
You pays your money and get the benefit of your choices.
Even so, starting at -25F to -35F with a dino oil with no tank heater or oil heater is right on the edge of what a dino oil can do. Why subject your engine to that torture?
Full synthetics can go to -45F (some even lower) and still pump well and protect your expensive engine.
80% of the people who run synthetics get little benefit from the cold start feature, it is too warm where they live. Now, someone who could really benefit from the cold starting properties of a synthetic and they decide to use a Group III. I just don't understand.
You pays your money and get the benefit of your choices.
I was going to run M1 10W-30 year-round for my Ford 4.6/5.4 SOHC V8s
The 10W-30 should be more shear resistant than 5W-30, 0W-30, and 5W-40.... our winters get into single digits but this year we're expecting lots of precipitation so I expect nothing colder than the teens (its warmer when it snows).
The 10W-30 should be more shear resistant than 5W-30, 0W-30, and 5W-40.... our winters get into single digits but this year we're expecting lots of precipitation so I expect nothing colder than the teens (its warmer when it snows).
I ran amsoil 10w30 in my crown vic last year. It was neg 40F for a week and I didn't have any problems, but I'm sure that wasn't the best idea.
However, I'm trying to avoid changing my GFs oil. LOL. =) She drives about 100 miles a month and I just didn't want to change it before winter. 1978 monte carlo with a 305...58k miles. The old lady before her didn't change it either.
It's not like the motor is in good condition anyways, but I suppose I should avoid making it worse.
However, I'm trying to avoid changing my GFs oil. LOL. =) She drives about 100 miles a month and I just didn't want to change it before winter. 1978 monte carlo with a 305...58k miles. The old lady before her didn't change it either.
It's not like the motor is in good condition anyways, but I suppose I should avoid making it worse.
No, I mean -25C because that is the temperature that a 10W-30 oil is rated at per the SAE J300 viscosity chart.
0W is 6200 max @ -35C
5W is 6600 max @ -30C
10W is 7000 max @ -25C
A 10W-30 product data sheet will list the CCV at -25C based on SAE J300.
Grp III oils can provide very good cold temp performance and this fact gets buried by the current obsessions with full synthetics on the various car & truck internet forums.
Again, if a standard dino 5W-30 is good for -25F temps, a Grp III with a -47F pour point should make -35F.
"What's about the bottom average morning temp the average group III 10w30 should be used?"
Per their spec sheet, the Borderline Pumping Temp for Pennzoil 10w-30 (conventional oil) is -26F. As with the vast majority of other firms, Pennzoil for some reason doesn't publish a BPT for their synthetics. A Group III would presumably have an even better BPT somewhere below -26F. But in erring on the side of caution (applying a Group I/II spec to a Group III oil), your answer would be -26F. The BPT for Pennzoil dino 5w-20 and 5w-30 are -31F.
Per their spec sheet, the Borderline Pumping Temp for Pennzoil 10w-30 (conventional oil) is -26F. As with the vast majority of other firms, Pennzoil for some reason doesn't publish a BPT for their synthetics. A Group III would presumably have an even better BPT somewhere below -26F. But in erring on the side of caution (applying a Group I/II spec to a Group III oil), your answer would be -26F. The BPT for Pennzoil dino 5w-20 and 5w-30 are -31F.
Personally I would not use a 10W-30 lower than -10F. I have used Mobil 1 10W-30 during a week when the temps were between 0 and -15 in Pa. And why would you want to push it by using the 10W-30. Unless you are going way extended OCI on a group III-the shear stability is going to be fine om a 5W-30. I can't recall even one post where a shear down contributed to a bad analysis. And not on a Group III for sure. Boottom line is why? Just an opinion though.
I think your blowing sunshine up your butt by thinking 10w-30 group 3 is superior to 5w-30 dino for cold weather. Pour point is meaningless. 5w-30 HM Pennzoil has a -27 F PP, Mobil 1 10w-30 is -45. Put both in the Freezer, and tell us which one pours better. When I did, the 5w-30 Pennz HM was much less viscous. Same with Group 3 synthetic compared to dino. I've tried 10w-30 Havoline synthetic in my freezer because, like you, I thought it might outperform 5w-30 dino Pennzoil. WOW, was I wrong. I actually posted about this one a while back. The Havoline synthetic was like glue, and some cloudy crud formed in it as well. Bottom line in my freezer testing, and by looking at spec sheets (5w-30 specs for cold cranking viscosity are at -30C, 10w-30 is at -25C, don't get confused), 5w-30 wins hands down for cold weather ops.
Unfortunately, the pour point data is the only cold temp number that appears on every data sheet. Cold Crank numbers for alot of brands are listed only as a "less than" value & not a specific number.
But Pour Point is a valid ASTM spec.
This Havoline Grp III 10W-30 is another example of a 10W-30 that has "morphed" itself into the 5W-30 viscosity numbers. And it has excellent cold temp numbers, including the 4100 cP @ -25C
Compare viscosity with common dino 5W-30's:
Valvoline 5W-30, 62 cSt @ 40C, 10.7 cSt @ 100C
Mobil DC 5W-30, 62 cSt @ 40C, 10.5 cSt @ 100C
Pennzoil 5W-30, 60 cSt @ 40C, 10.5 cSt @ 100C
Havoline Grp III
Synthetic 10W-30,61.4 cSt @ 40C, 10.1 cSt @ 100c
Now compare the pour points:
Valvoline 5W-30, -36C
Mobil DC 5W-30, -39c
Pennzoil 5W-30, -42C
Havoline Grp III
Synthetic 10W-30, -44C
Please elaborate on this statement, minus any proctology references, as I don't see how the numbers support this position.
For one, I have used Havoline, or I should say, tried Havoline synthetic 10w-30 in my car last winter, and my Dad's Blazer. When trying to start at -10F at my Dad's cabin near Fairplay, CO, it wasn't too good. It struggled and knocked pretty bad. Same with my car. Now, 5w-30 Pennzoil allows it to fire right up without laboring nearly as much, and I recall starting it when it was around -17F last winter when we were ice fishing. Plus, I put both 5w-30 Pennzoil and Havoline 10w-30 synthetic in my freezer (yea, I know, real scientific
) and Pennzoil 5w-30 was NIGHT and DAY less viscous than the Havoline. **** , 5w-30 Pennzoil put Mobil 1 10w-30 to shame in my -5 F freezer
I honestly can't give you comparison numbers between these oils because like you stated, Pennzoil lists their numbers for cold cranking at the API limits, not the actual number. And, Chvron/Texaco of course lists 5w at -30C, and 10w at -25C, so you really can't compare the two, but based on real world testing, I'd have to give the nod to 5w-30 Pennzoil dino for cold weather ops, at least down to say, -20F. Beyond that, and synthetic is a must IMO. After trying various 10w-30s in temps well under 0F, I won't use it in winter anymore because I start my car several times during the winter when it's at least -10F in the mountains. Plus, Most owner's manuals list 0F as the cutoff for 10w-30; heck, some still list 20F as the 10w-30 cutoff.
Drew - Thanks for the feedback on the Havoline Synthetic. I am still planning on running this oil for the coldest winter months in my GM Vortec 5.3L Silverado 4X4. But, if it creates additional engine noise at startup, I'll quickly pull the plug on this trial!
From a pracical viewpoint, -15F to -20F will probably be the lowest temp the oil will see. And this is only if I leave the truck out in the driveway, rather than in the garage!
From a pracical viewpoint, -15F to -20F will probably be the lowest temp the oil will see. And this is only if I leave the truck out in the driveway, rather than in the garage!
Yikes man!! My Dad is from Wisconsin and all his side of the family still lives there, so I've been there many a time in winter. I just could not run 10w-30 there in the wintertime! I'm sure no harm would be done to your motor, but personally, I wouldn't have pleasent dreams knowing I had 10w-30 in there. I'd consider 10w-30 Mobil 1, which can be had for $3.99 at Walmart. It did better than Havoline synthetic 10w-30 in my freezer, but not by much.
havoline syn is good stuff no doubt and it will probably work in the winter quite well, If I might make a suggestion though, their 5w20 might work better, in spite of the published specs. Start up difference is noticible in my ford v6 and 5.4. They don't start up, They "light up". Cold starting is a non issue for me though, so I normally run mc 5w20. seems to take the heat well. btw: I've run the hav syn before, I love the oil, just lost out on the cost to benefit calculation.
regards.
r.
regards.
r.
As reported, another way to look at things is how folks who don't pay any attention to their cars manage through the winters.
The reality is that most people here get along fine using any quickie lube 5w30 dino oils right through the winter here. -20 and -25F mornings are fairly routine here.
We all know there are better products, but with today's computer controlled engines, most engines will start if they can even barely crank over...
As far as how low I'd take a Group III 10w30, depends on the published specs... I know that wasn't the answer wanted, but if Pour Point and BPT look acceptable for low temp ops, then it shouldn't be an issue.
The reality is that most people here get along fine using any quickie lube 5w30 dino oils right through the winter here. -20 and -25F mornings are fairly routine here.
We all know there are better products, but with today's computer controlled engines, most engines will start if they can even barely crank over...
As far as how low I'd take a Group III 10w30, depends on the published specs... I know that wasn't the answer wanted, but if Pour Point and BPT look acceptable for low temp ops, then it shouldn't be an issue.
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