Good synth. oil choice for 8000+ RPM engine?

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Honda K20Z3. I prefer something that can be sourced locally and not mail ordered (Amsoil, Redline, Motul) in 5W30 or 0W30. I've heard some things about Eneos that sound good


You can "locally source" Eneos??!!

I have NEVER seen this stuff on a shelf anywhere, not even in any local hard core import tuner's shop.

Are you in Cali??

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Honda K20Z3. I prefer something that can be sourced locally and not mail ordered (Amsoil, Redline, Motul) in 5W30 or 0W30. I've heard some things about Eneos that sound good, but I don't care if I buy Valvoline or Pennzoil if the data supports it and the price to performance ratio is more favorable. I currently use Castrol Syntec 5W30.

Any suggestions?

Any decent synthetic should work.

If you're really interested in finding the best, that'll take some time and money. Are you willing to spend at least $60 every few thousand miles, trying a different oil every other oil change, until you find it?


No, which is the whole point of asking. I was just wondering if someone had some quantitative data and a bit of an explanation for the results.


On another note, and not in response to this post, I've purchase Amsoil gear oil and in spite of having a "local dealer" it had to be shipped and "local" means 30 miles away. I'm not overly impressed with the gear oil and am switching to Redline, in spite of having several more quarts at $10 per of Amsoil. There's a "local" dealer for Redline about 25 miles away, but they don't carry what I want.

Last, I've heard Royal Purple is hyped even more than Amsoil and, unlike Amsoil, has very little to back it up, numberswise. I'm not denigrating Amsoil, just not granting that they are better than anything else out there.

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Honda K20Z3. I prefer something that can be sourced locally and not mail ordered (Amsoil, Redline, Motul) in 5W30 or 0W30. I've heard some things about Eneos that sound good


You can "locally source" Eneos??!!

I have NEVER seen this stuff on a shelf anywhere, not even in any local hard core import tuner's shop.

Are you in Cali??


No, Ohio. Advance now claims they carry it, but I was just there today and it isn't true.

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
CZ-75- You have given is no info as to what the car is used for. Is it race only on weekends? is it a daily driver that ocassionally does an autocross? After looking at these recommendations, I don't think they answer the question of what is the primary use of this honda. IMO you would want a different oil for either application. FWIW--Oldtommy


DD w/ some spirited driving and occasional auto-x. It won't be living at redline.

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Just become a preferred customer and get AMSOIL wholesale. That is the best deal going. And it shows up at your door in 2 days. Buy a 5 gallon jug and your good for 2 years. I don't get it. Instant gratification I guess. I read alot and not only do you save money shopping online for AMSOIL but you font have to drive and get it. You don't have to waste your time going to get it. I am baffled. Rp has moly in it and being a member here has taught me the pros and cons of that stuff. I put in an order every 6 months then I get to tinker on the weekends and admire my stock with all those pretty colours on em. And the air filters are second to none. I love AMSOIL. Great stuff. Not sure about the vitamins idea but hey gotta try to expand somehow. Just go with the AMSOIL deal and enjoy all your saved time


I'm not convinced about Amsoil and their marketing strategy seems like something from a cult (or Amway), which can mean people get hyped up and ignore other alternatives in their fervor. As a consequence, I sure don't want to commit to 5 gallons. I did have a shop near where I used to work, way on the other side of the city, change my oil with Amsoil once. The idea of 25,000 miles on oil doesn't seem feasible, not b/c of breakdown so much as reliable LT filtration of the entrained dirt.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you're really interested in finding the best, that'll take some time and money. Are you willing to spend at least $60 every few thousand miles, trying a different oil every other oil change, until you find it?


No, which is the whole point of asking. I was just wondering if someone had some quantitative data and a bit of an explanation for the results.

You would need several meaningful sets of numbers from each of a variety of oils in YOUR engine to be able to glean enough information to make a call. This forum is pretty short on that kind of information, unfortunately.

The only source of any such information, oddly enough, is your owner's manual. The recommendations in there are backed by exactly that kind of testing. Anything that meets the requirements specified there will do fine; the only question is how much of a margin you want.

It's possible that some oils will work better than others. As I said, the only way to know for sure is to pony up for a serious UOA every few thousand miles as you test various oils. If you don't want to do that, the next best thing is to learn a thing or two about various OEM and third-party approvals (Honda HTO-O6, ACEA A3, Mercedes 229.5, GM4718M, etc.), pick the ones that indicate the kind(s) of performance you want, and then look for oils that carry those approvals. For example, Mobil 1 5w-30 carries Honda HTO-06 approval, which would effectively eliminate all possibility of high-temperature deposit formation in your engine. Castrol Syntec 0w-30 European Formula meets ACEA A3, which means it'll be fairly thick in the hottest parts of your engine; you'll lose fuel economy but might gain some protection under hard use. And so on.

Based on how you described your usage, I honestly don't think it would remotely challenge any big-name off-the-shelf synthetic in 5w-30 or 0w-30. Honda engines tend to be really easy on oil, and you're not stressing the engine beyond what it's designed to take -- even with the factory-spec oil. You might as well go for Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-30 and hopefully save some fuel. In fact, that probably would be my choice if I had your car and were choosing an off-the-shelf oil.


Originally Posted By: CZ-75
On another note, and not in response to this post, I've purchase Amsoil gear oil and in spite of having a "local dealer" it had to be shipped and "local" means 30 miles away. I'm not overly impressed with the gear oil and am switching to Redline, in spite of having several more quarts at $10 per of Amsoil. There's a "local" dealer for Redline about 25 miles away, but they don't carry what I want.

Every application is different. Your experience with gear oil won't necessarily reflect on Amsoil's engine oils.


Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Last, I've heard Royal Purple is hyped even more than Amsoil and, unlike Amsoil, has very little to back it up, numberswise. I'm not denigrating Amsoil, just not granting that they are better than anything else out there.

Not sure if it's hyped more, but it definitely isn't backed by numbers as much as Amsoil is. That said, the numbers that Amsoil presents are all bench tests, so it's debatable how much they're actually worth.

Both companies make fine oils.

 

[zulu]

Waiting on JoefromPA or OrdinanceMarine to chime in. Both have 8th gen Si with the Z3 motors. If you browse the UOA sections, they have some really stellar reports with PP 5W-30. On my RSX-S, I used Mobil 1 exclusively, mostly in 5W-30. I put 78K hard miles, including many with the Hondata K-pro at the 8600rpm cutoff. Great engine. It really liked to consume oil when you run it hard. Stay with the thicker 30W oils to minimize consumption. Any OTC synthetic will do. Follow the MM.

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you're really interested in finding the best, that'll take some time and money. Are you willing to spend at least $60 every few thousand miles, trying a different oil every other oil change, until you find it?


No, which is the whole point of asking. I was just wondering if someone had some quantitative data and a bit of an explanation for the results.

You would need several meaningful sets of numbers from each of a variety of oils in YOUR engine to be able to glean enough information to make a call. This forum is pretty short on that kind of information, unfortunately.

The only source of any such information, oddly enough, is your owner's manual. The recommendations in there are backed by exactly that kind of testing. Anything that meets the requirements specified there will do fine; the only question is how much of a margin you want.

It's possible that some oils will work better than others. As I said, the only way to know for sure is to pony up for a serious UOA every few thousand miles as you test various oils. If you don't want to do that, the next best thing is to learn a thing or two about various OEM and third-party approvals (Honda HTO-O6, ACEA A3, Mercedes 229.5, GM4718M, etc.), pick the ones that indicate the kind(s) of performance you want, and then look for oils that carry those approvals. For example, Mobil 1 5w-30 carries Honda HTO-06 approval, which would effectively eliminate all possibility of high-temperature deposit formation in your engine. Castrol Syntec 0w-30 European Formula meets ACEA A3, which means it'll be fairly thick in the hottest parts of your engine; you'll lose fuel economy but might gain some protection under hard use. And so on.

Based on how you described your usage, I honestly don't think it would remotely challenge any big-name off-the-shelf synthetic in 5w-30 or 0w-30. Honda engines tend to be really easy on oil, and you're not stressing the engine beyond what it's designed to take -- even with the factory-spec oil. You might as well go for Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w-30 and hopefully save some fuel. In fact, that probably would be my choice if I had your car and were choosing an off-the-shelf oil.


Originally Posted By: CZ-75
On another note, and not in response to this post, I've purchase Amsoil gear oil and in spite of having a "local dealer" it had to be shipped and "local" means 30 miles away. I'm not overly impressed with the gear oil and am switching to Redline, in spite of having several more quarts at $10 per of Amsoil. There's a "local" dealer for Redline about 25 miles away, but they don't carry what I want.

Every application is different. Your experience with gear oil won't necessarily reflect on Amsoil's engine oils.


Originally Posted By: CZ-75
Last, I've heard Royal Purple is hyped even more than Amsoil and, unlike Amsoil, has very little to back it up, numberswise. I'm not denigrating Amsoil, just not granting that they are better than anything else out there.

Not sure if it's hyped more, but it definitely isn't backed by numbers as much as Amsoil is. That said, the numbers that Amsoil presents are all bench tests, so it's debatable how much they're actually worth.

Both companies make fine oils.


Thanks for the reply. I went w/ Castrol Syntec again since I didn't hear anyone denigrate it. I was going to buy Pennzoil, but they were out of gallon jugs in 5W30 and I wasn't paying around $2 more a quart for singles.

 

[Artem]

^I have to agree, considering the specs that Honda required for the K20 Engine in 2006 when the Si was released, ANY "full" synthetic as the companies like the label it, will be more then enough for what the engine needs for daily needs.

I have an 07 Si and have posted a few UOA using M1 and now Amsoil. Both are great oils and i honestly don't see much difference in either.

Over the years / miles, i've tried practically every synth oil off the shelves from Walmart, tried Eneos (hated it) tried Redline, and even Motul once.

I run my car VERY hard on the streets and @ almost 90k the engine is running great, having had 3k OCI's since day one. (not saying 3k OCIs are needed for it, i'm just that Anal about oil)

For Track days (time attack) i run Valvoline Racing oil (blue in color) for maximum protection during sustained high RPM action for hours on end (revving to 8,600RPM)


I plan to keep the Si for the next 10 years, turning it into a gutted weekend track car in a couple of years, eventually becoming a beater as it ages past 200k. As hard as i push the engine, i maintain it well.

If you might sell the car in a couple of years, i don't see a point in ordering exotic oils when any off the shelf juice will be More then enough.

just my

 

[CZ-75]

Originally Posted By: Artem
^I have to agree, considering the specs that Honda required for the K20 Engine in 2006 when the Si was released, ANY "full" synthetic as the companies like the label it, will be more then enough for what the engine needs for daily needs.

I have an 07 Si and have posted a few UOA using M1 and now Amsoil. Both are great oils and i honestly don't see much difference in either.

Over the years / miles, i've tried practically every synth oil off the shelves from Walmart, tried Eneos (hated it) tried Redline, and even Motul once.

I run my car VERY hard on the streets and @ almost 90k the engine is running great, having had 3k OCI's since day one. (not saying 3k OCIs are needed for it, i'm just that Anal about oil)

For Track days (time attack) i run Valvoline Racing oil (blue in color) for maximum protection during sustained high RPM action for hours on end (revving to 8,600RPM)


I plan to keep the Si for the next 10 years, turning it into a gutted weekend track car in a couple of years, eventually becoming a beater as it ages past 200k. As hard as i push the engine, i maintain it well.

If you might sell the car in a couple of years, i don't see a point in ordering exotic oils when any off the shelf juice will be More then enough.

just my

I'll probably keep it 3-5 more years - nothing Honda makes now impresses me, especially since they're killing the K20 in favor of the K24.

 

[yaris0128]

Wow CZ-75! I am jealous of your screen name! Love that pistol.