Good source for used car comparisons?

[Horatio]

Hi all, I'm shopping for a used car and have been using the "Lemon Aid" used car guide for some of my research but I find it a little inconsistent; Honda Civics are rated as an average small car in one section but Acura ELs are rated as a recommended mid-Size car - they're mechanically very very similar and dimensions-wise the same so I'd like another source to work with. Is Consumer Reports a good source? Their rating system seems pretty comprehensive and it's pretty easy to do side by side comparisons of different vehicles. Are there any other places I should be looking?

Thanks!

Greg

 

[eljefino]

Look at forums for the models you are considering! Fuel sippers are great because you'll find ones in fleets that get tons of miles doing courier work etc which accellerates the wear and problems.

CR says read CR and doesn't give well rounded advice like look elsewhere too. Their respondents also read CR and would have a hard time admitting mistakes on CR's reliability surveys. Their testing is not peer reviewed (a forum is-- instantly!) and they mix various systems into a colored dot. A bad radiator cap could affect a "cooling system rating" as could a blown radiator... and the manufacturer might switch your cap during a routine dealer oil change at no hassle to you! But you don't know, from reading CR.

The long and short of your issue is there are other consumers armed with your knowledge and any creampuff will be priced accordingly. If you're shopping for value you want to find something that for some reason is being passed up that has some minor issue you can handle.

IOW you can get a creampuff model X for $10k with 63k miles or model Y with only 20k miles which *should* more than make up for its deficiencies.

 

[supton]

Forums are good. Just be aware of biases: if you read a "RAV4 vs CRV?" thread on say ravworld you will understandably see plenty of "it's a no-brainer--get the RAV!" However, it's the more neutral reviews, or better yet, negative reviews, that are important to read, regardless of site. At the least, on say ravworld, you'll find what people didn't like about CRV, which you can decide if it matters or not.

Most reviews I've found are just glowing, despite 3 months of ownership, or only 50k on the clock, whatever. What is more interesting is the "I like it, but the cupholder is in a bad place", "transmission likes to clunk when cold", etc.

Of course, everyone has made a lemon. The trick is to determine the trends from the exceptions. And dealer/mechanic screwups have to be subtracted from the equation--a number of lemons I bet are more because of dealership morons than actual car issues.

 

[HerrStig]

CU ratings have been pretty tough on cars I owned and liked, but I have to admit they were right more often than not.

 

[Burt]

I don't like how CR would rate a Mercury Grand Marquis as having a different reliability than a Ford Crown Vic even though they are twins. And the Toyota Matrix comes out significantly more reliable than the Pontiac Vibe even though they are the same cars. People are much more forgiving of 'Japanese' cars even if they are made here. I have heard owners of Japanese cars say that while their civic engine failed at 60,000 miles, it was the result of a fluke - a plastic part that broke. Owners of american cars are not so forgiving.

I would recommend going to the repair forums of Edmunds.com. you will see a pattern that a given model has a half dozen of the same things that go wrong (e.g. O2 sensers, power window motors etc.) If you can get the repair records, you can see how many of the typical problems have been fixed and how many you are likely to see in the future.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Burt
I don't like how CR would rate a Mercury Grand Marquis as having a different reliability than a Ford Crown Vic even though they are twins. And the Toyota Matrix comes out significantly more reliable than the Pontiac Vibe even though they are the same cars.


Both these examples don't seem to be true.

I just checked and CR rates both the Vibe and Matrix very similarly. The have similar reliability ratings and both are ranked as a "CR Good Bet" when considering used cars.

CR even says they're very similar and rated very similar. Here's a bit of info that may help to explain why there are sometimes differences in the scores between similar models. This is referring to the Vibe and Matrix:
Quote:
Because the Matrix and Vibe are essentially similar vehicles with different styling, the two scored very closely in our testing. As a result, we’ll discuss them together. The few differences in their scores resulted primarily from the different drivetrains we chose (AWD vs. front-wheel drive) and body design.





The Ford Crown Vic and Merc Grand Marquis are rated basically identically. The overall reliability ratings are the same, except for 2010, when they only show the Mercury, since the Ford had gone fleet only, I believe.

They even note on the website that they're the same.

Quote:
A classic highway cruiser, the rear-wheel-drive Grand Marquis is a sibling of the Ford Crown Victoria, built on a full frame and powered by a 4.6-liter V8. A compliant ride, a huge trunk, and substantial trailer-towing capability are its major assets. Handling is fairly clumsy and the steering feels light.


Is CR's method perfect? Probably not, but no methods are perfect. In the cases you mentioned, there isn't an apparent "bias" I can see, as CR acknowledges the cars are the same and they're rated basically the same.

 

[mrsilv04]

Give www.truedelta.com a try.

I help and supply data for this site.

 

[dishdude]

Buy what you like. They are all about the same.

 

[Horatio]

thanks for the replies, all.

I checked out Edmunds and it's pretty good. I still don't love the final ratings (in my mind a car that has common trans failures at 90-100k miles shouldn't be getting 4 ou of 5 stars but maybe there are more things to be taken into account). One feature I really like; when there are problems and they flag them, they give you info on what the probelm is and what they think it would cost to fix. Nice. At least it gives enough info to save some time in digging around on the 'net.

As for forums, they can be an excellent resource but they can also be confounding. I find them pretty hit and miss and at times they can be pretty time consuming if you're trying to find out something about specific issues (in my case, I was looking for a definitive answer on whether the automatic transmissions in '04-'05 Civics are more reliable than the '01-'03 models). Also as mentioned asking on a Honda Civic forum if a Corolla would be a better choice is probably not going to result in unbiased advice.

 

[fisher83]

I prefer Edmunds. You can search for customer reviews on their site and they also give some pricing info which seems to be a little more accurate than KBB. Plus they don't seem to be as biased as others. Maybe it's just me but Consumer Reports seems to be pretty harsh on domestic cars in their reviews.

 

[Horatio]

sorry, what's KBB?

Also I forgot to check truedelta. I've been making half-assed contributions to it regearding my Civic but I've sort of lost momentum on that.

 

[stephen9666]

Kelley Blue Book

http://www.kbb.com/