Going from domestic to foreign?

[supton]

Uh, that is a pretty long time to hold a grudge. Chrysler has gone bankrupt twice, and owned by a couple different companies, so they are flat out not who they used to be.

Although its pretty odd that it took an Italian car maker to breath reliability into them...

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
1966 Dodge Dart with 273 cu. in. engine.Special ordered with front disc brakes,four-speed transmission,modified suspension. Hood was over an inch higher than the fender at one place due to sheet metal damage.. Wiring bundle did not have the wiring for back-up lights. Back up switch was cross-threaded into the transmission and leaked oil. HVAC duct work was screwed up.Alignment was not even close. Ball joints had to be replaced. Instruments jiggled all over on anything but smooth roads. Trunk leaked.The vehicle was a disaster. Traded that pos in on a 1967 Toyota Corona Zero build problems.Learned from Toyota dealer that Chrysler Corp had to replace Dart engine under the 50,000 mile, five year warranty. No more Chrysler Corp anything for me, ever.Hamtramck POS.


I see that you just got out of the time machine from 50 years ago, so I understand you might be a little confused. I guess you need someone to explain to you that a car company now is not the same as the car company 50 years ago.

 

[Falcon_LS]

I personally believe a car's "reliability" is directly related to how it is driven and maintained. For the most part, I've had three Japanese vehicles - the Pajero/Montero that's still in the fleet, a 9th generation Galant with a 3.8L V6 and a 4th generation Lexus ES with the infamous 1MZ-FE. Otherwise, with the exeption of the one Crown Victoria and three Grand Marquis' and the Mustang, we've been a GM family with countless B-Body and RWD C-Body vehicles in the family.

I've never had any major problems with any domestic nameplate I've owned, and for the most part, I find them easier to work on than their Japanese counterparts. Obviously, this is very application specific and I'm referring to my experiences with the vehicles I've owned. By the same token, I've never had any major problems with the Japanese nameplates I've owned either.

That being said, for me, if it's an import, it's a VW - be it in VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT or even Porsche flavor. With all due respect to those who like them, I find most Japanese cars to be pretty bland and boring to drive - with the exception of Subaru's. Obviously, there are exceptions with other nameplates and I'm not talking about something like a GT-R. But if we're talking every day transportation, I'll happily take a Passat over a Camry or an Accord any day of the week.

Equally, I'll very happily take a GMC Yukon over a Toyota Land Cruiser or Nissan Patrol. Although they have a relatively spotless off-road record, on the road, I find the Land Cruiser to be like a wet noodle in comparison to a GMC Yukon, especially in Denali flavor if the TLC in question is equipped with a 5.7L V8.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: supton
Uh, that is a pretty long time to hold a grudge. Chrysler has gone bankrupt twice, and owned by a couple different companies, so they are flat out not who they used to be.

Although its pretty odd that it took an Italian car maker to breath reliability into them...


I've had good service from Chrysler long before the Fiat and Diamler involvement. LOL just carry an extra "ballast resistor" for the older ones.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: supton
Uh, that is a pretty long time to hold a grudge. Chrysler has gone bankrupt twice, and owned by a couple different companies, so they are flat out not who they used to be.

Although its pretty odd that it took an Italian car maker to breath reliability into them...


All the more reason they should have been gone. Bailed out twice by the government equals failure in my book. It will be interesting to see if there is a 3rd time or if Fiat will pull the plug on Dodge and Chrysler and just keep Jeep and Ram.

And I'd look at long term dependability stats from pretty much everyone that rates that sort of thing. Chrysler company vehicles are at the bottom. And we're talking 2011 models in the case of JD Power. When the Mopar fanboys said things should have gotten better.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
1966 Dodge Dart with 273 cu. in. engine.Special ordered with front disc brakes,four-speed transmission,modified suspension. Hood was over an inch higher than the fender at one place due to sheet metal damage.. Wiring bundle did not have the wiring for back-up lights. Back up switch was cross-threaded into the transmission and leaked oil. HVAC duct work was screwed up.Alignment was not even close. Ball joints had to be replaced. Instruments jiggled all over on anything but smooth roads. Trunk leaked.The vehicle was a disaster. Traded that pos in on a 1967 Toyota Corona Zero build problems.Learned from Toyota dealer that Chrysler Corp had to replace Dart engine under the 50,000 mile, five year warranty. No more Chrysler Corp anything for me, ever.Hamtramck POS.


I see that you just got out of the time machine from 50 years ago, so I understand you might be a little confused. I guess you need someone to explain to you that a car company now is not the same as the car company 50 years ago.
When VW was already turning out well made cars. That's what shifted an entire generation or two from "They'll SELL you what THEY want" to WE'LL BUY what WE want".

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: supton
Uh, that is a pretty long time to hold a grudge. Chrysler has gone bankrupt twice, and owned by a couple different companies, so they are flat out not who they used to be.

Although its pretty odd that it took an Italian car maker to breath reliability into them...


All the more reason they should have been gone. Bailed out twice by the government equals failure in my book.

And I'd look at long term dependability stats from pretty much everyone that rates that sort of thing. Chrysler company vehicles are at the bottom. And we're talking 2011 models in the case of JD Power. When the Mopar fanboys said things should have gotten better.
I have to agree...TWICE bankrupt means they are REAL slow learners. One reason they got bailed out the FRIST time was because Ford and GM were afraid of antitrust action against THEM if they were the only two companies left. Didn't have anything to do with the "quality" of the Mopar product.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
1966 Dodge Dart with 273 cu. in. engine.Special ordered with front disc brakes,four-speed transmission,modified suspension. Hood was over an inch higher than the fender at one place due to sheet metal damage.. Wiring bundle did not have the wiring for back-up lights. Back up switch was cross-threaded into the transmission and leaked oil. HVAC duct work was screwed up.Alignment was not even close. Ball joints had to be replaced. Instruments jiggled all over on anything but smooth roads. Trunk leaked.The vehicle was a disaster. Traded that pos in on a 1967 Toyota Corona Zero build problems.Learned from Toyota dealer that Chrysler Corp had to replace Dart engine under the 50,000 mile, five year warranty. No more Chrysler Corp anything for me, ever.Hamtramck POS.

I see that you just got out of the time machine from 50 years ago, so I understand you might be a little confused. I guess you need someone to explain to you that a car company now is not the same as the car company 50 years ago.

For starters, Chrysler isn't in Hamtramck anymore.

 

[ls1mike]

Toyota

Just because Mopar needed help doesn't mean they should be gone.

Don't want this to turn into that type of thread. Every car company has gotten help along the way. Maybe low interest loans, subsidy's, or bailouts. Just depends on what country is footing bill.

I have had good service from my Domestics, My Honda, Nissan and VW were not as good. A 91 Sentra, a 96 Accord and an 02 Jetta TDI. Doesn't mean all their cars suck, just means mine were not that great even when well cared for. It most certainly doesn't mean the stuff make now is bad.

I am a firm believer in that if you take care of a car it will take care of you. In this day of age I think it is hard to find a bad car, but there will always be those ones made on a Friday before a three day weekend.

This is a good time because you can pretty much by what you want with a good warranty and expect a good service life out of a vehicle.

 

[artificialist]

Well, GM screwed me and my father more than any other car maker. My father had less trouble with his 1987 Hyundai Excel than his 2007 Pontiac G6. That makes no sense to me. My 2003 ION had an engine die at 90,000 miles despite proper maintenance.

Meanwhile, mom has a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and it is as good as the other 2 great cars we had in our family, a 1997 Lexus ES300 and 1995 Honda Accord.

Mom had a Japanese car that sucked, a 1985 Nissan Maxima. However, I don't know if similar cars of the time were any better. My dad knew people who had a 1986 Taurus, and they were even worse. The Nissan VG30E would have lasted if we all knew what a timing belt was, but the Ford Vulcan was more likely to blow head gaskets even if maintained right.

I knew Toyota and Honda made good cars, but I never wanted one. My parents drove them, and I didn't want to be like my parents. That is why I had a 2002 VW Jetta and when I crashed it, I got a 2003 Saturn ION.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Well, GM screwed me and my father more than any other car maker. My father had less trouble with his 1987 Hyundai Excel than his 2007 Pontiac G6. That makes no sense to me. My 2003 ION had an engine die at 90,000 miles despite proper maintenance.



It is difficult for me to separate my good GMs from my bad GMs.

My Chevette and 307/LV2 98 Regency were so bad that it clouds the positives of my 305/LG4 Firebird and my '65 Impala.
I wouldn't touch a GM for years because of the Oldsmobile 98 Regurgitate and Chevette memories. But, like mentioned above, they are a different car company now.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Well, GM screwed me and my father more than any other car maker. My father had less trouble with his 1987 Hyundai Excel than his 2007 Pontiac G6. That makes no sense to me. My 2003 ION had an engine die at 90,000 miles despite proper maintenance.



It is difficult for me to separate my good GMs from my bad GMs.

My Chevette and 307/LV2 98 Regency were so bad that it clouds the positives of my 305/LG4 Firebird and my '65 Impala.
I wouldn't touch a GM for years because of the Oldsmobile 98 Regurgitate and Chevette memories. But, like mentioned above, they are a different car company now.


GM said they were different in the 1980s, after many of their 70s cars sucked. GM made many cars during the 80s that sucked. In the 1990s, they said they were different, as they made some of the worst intake manifold gaskets ever. In the 2000s they said they were different. That didn't stop me and my dad from being screwed. So if I think when they say the 2010s are different, I have good reason to believe that it is a lie.

The Vega sucked, so they created the Chevette to take its place. The Chevette sucked, so the Cavilier took its place. The Cavilier Sucked, so the Cobalt took its place. Now the Cruze replaces the Cobalt.

I could say the same thing about Pontiac. The 6000 sucked, so the Grand Am took over. The Grand Am sucked, so the G6 took over. Thanks to the failure of the G6 and other Pontiacs, that division was eliminated.

 

[PFP]

I went from foreign to domestic. Went from BMW (horrible reliability) to F150. You can get an F150 with the (not Ecoboost) bulletproof 5.0. It is one of the last great American V8's. Reliable, strong and fairly good mileage. And, a great sound - nothing like American V8 for sound. You should consider it. Has been my most reliable vehicle yet.

 

[SumpChump]

I loved my 305. It the carb....meh.

I do see some Saturns going and going the early little ones whose name I don't even know. I wonder what was different about those.

The worst GM I ever owned was the 2006 Impala. Sure it had power and I happened to like its around town power but other than that it was predictably flawed. There were items such as purge selenoid and rear geometry problems which showed on every last Impala of that gen I met.

The tranny shop guy said the Trans as situated and (not) cooled in that car was his "bread and butter"

 

[gofast182]

I can certainly see why one would choose a Honda car over a Chevy car but I don't see why one would want to choose a Nissan over a Ford or Dodge truck, for example.

 

[dishdude]

The worst cars my family owned were a 2000 Acura TL, a 2004 Maxima and a 1990 Chevy Lumina. We've had other Hondas and GMs that were perfect. Sometimes you're just unlucky and get a bad one. I will say of those 3, the Chevy was the only one that didn't have a major powertrain failure.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
For starters, Chrysler isn't in Hamtramck anymore.


No . . . It's in Italy now. Along with Renegade assembly.

After going through the experience of working in a plant that was closed, because our company sent all our production South of the border (Thank you, NAFTA), I buy American wherever possible. That said, when it comes to cars, it is so hard to define what is American, and what is not. There are many who believe that to buy American, you have to buy from the Big 3. You know. Keep your money here with American engineering and design. Well, that's not even true any more, is it? So, now it's the Big 2? Even before Fiat taking ownership, Chrysler hadn't been one of the big boys for some time. Their share of the market has been smaller than many imports. Hard to call that part of a big anything.

As you can tell from my signature line, I drive an Outback. Sure, it's built in Indiana. But much of the drive train comes from Japan. Some of us quibble about which has more domestic content. But really, is there all that much difference between 65% on one car and 75% on another?

One thing that over four decades of buying and driving cars has taught me, is that you can't judge quality based upon brand name. Ok, well all Yugo's sucked. But you know what I mean. Some of the car companies with the best reputations have made some bad cars. Honda put a lousy tranny in the Odyssey. Toyota did a lousy job launching the Tundra. GM did an excellent job on the eighth generation Malibu. But no one would have said that about a few of the earlier generations of the Malibu.

It doesn't seem that it is wise to buy by brand. Shop and buy a car or truck that is being built well. And if you like to buy American, then buy one that is made in America, and don't fret over which nameplate is on the front and back of the car.

Unless you are a GM hater, like me. Then the nameplate does matter.

 

[hattaresguy]

European cars are the best to drive and a bit more to own. Japanese cars are dull to drive and very cheap to own.

American cars fall somewhere in between, some are very good, some are very bad. We are good at building trucks.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
European cars are the best to drive and a bit more to own. Japanese cars are dull to drive and very cheap to own....


I will put my Mazda up against any front-wheel drive European car for driveability.

But in defense of your statement, Mazdas are typically related to German cars in handling.

On the road, the 6 proved to be a stable cruiser, providing a comfortable, quiet ride even into triple-digit speeds. When the roads turned serpentine, the 6 remained a predictable handler, exhibiting little body roll and moderate understeer when pushed hard. Credit goes to Mazda engineers who tuned the unequal-length control-arm front and multilink rear suspension with some European flavor.
Caranddriver.com

And indeed, the 6 also derives its spirit from the joy of driving. Although all of the above-mentioned Japanese sedans are much more nimble and playful than their predecessors, the handling dynamics of the 6 are a step above. Steering performance from the power-assisted rack and pinion setup is exemplary, with drivers citing the likes of the BMW 3 Series as a comparison.... but none of the others (in the class) can match the 6 in terms of feedback from the road and linearity."
Edmunds

Many of the Mazda reviews I have read have drawn comparisons to various German cars. The whole car lineup. Some Japanese cars have had a history of being excellent drivers but the Mazda tends to engineer that in every car.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Some of the car companies with the best reputations have made some bad cars. Honda put a lousy tranny in the Odyssey. Toyota did a lousy job launching the Tundra.


I agree with you, but not sure why a lousy launch would make for a bad vehicle...?