GM to Stop Making Gas-powered Cars

[FireChicken]

Almost no non union companies in the US offer pensions. They do 401K matching, and offer other things.
I'm 54 and have never had a pension job.

Interesting you feel your benefits are all due to a union.

All my staff have a 40 hour work week, sick leave, paid vacation, comprehensive health and disability benefits with reasonable deductibles, 401K match, vision, dental, legal assistance, investment assistance. For the last 26 years everyone's gotten a year end bonus even in 2020.

Id bet telsa offers a stock program, I made a fortune on Autodesk stock due to their stock option program.

I made a Faustian bargain with the great Satan of mining, or rather its predecessor company. Do these things in this awful place and you will be cared for from here to your grave. You can retire at 55 because your going to die early anyways and you keep your benefits. You won't be paid well but the profit sharing plan is honest and a long the way we will grudgingly stick to the deal under threat of strikes. The great Satan will not even guarantee that now, but you still get all the accidents and industrial decease you can ask for. Those golden handcuff of your old DP pension will keep you in your place if your too old to start over....

In another place the DB pension was an enticement to do a nasty job. 4 years on the Coke batteries at the steel works got you 5 years towards pension.

Was any of it worth it?
They say you should be happy to work and find a job that makes you happy and gives you a sense of fulfillment.
They say that with a straight face, but I work because I have to.
I learned a little too late I liked being here in my home with my wife and family, work was never the centre of my life or my reason to exist...

 

[UncleDave]

It’s not a feeling, it’s fact unions fighting have given all the modern day benefits. I know about employer matching and pensions. I got matching because I was exempt. I got nothing for the days before that job.
My dad having been an active union man from when unions began in the US forms my basis, which is in fact. I’ve been in unions and on the wrong end of being attacked by a union. They were horrible. But bottom line is since the industial revolution began, the fight for worker conditions was done by unionization. Not one thing would have been given without unions. It is a story so old Charles Dickens based many of his novels on worker conditions and the absolute authority of employers over their workers lives. So no, it is not a “feeling.”

Treating workers well is not an exclusive to a union based company, and insinuating only unions do so is laughably out of touch with modern days.

I offer all that you've outlined and more without taking fee, or dues from my employees and creating another level of executive fiefdom with their money thats often abused and scandal laden.

I watched a union strike completely destroy the town I grew up in while the union fat cats never suffered one bit. In the end the workers went backwards so just who were they fighting for?

What we needed in past times is not identical to what we need today.

I do believe some unions are good, and some are bad. Im not anti union, just anti ineffective and bad ones.

 

[UncleDave]

I made a Faustian bargain with the great Satan of mining, or rather its predecessor company. Do these things in this awful place and you will be cared for from here to your grave. You can retire at 55 because your going to die early anyways and you keep your benefits. You won't be paid well but the profit sharing plan is honest and a long the way we will grudgingly stick to the deal under threat of strikes. The great Satan will not even guarantee that now, but you still get all the accidents and industrial decease you can ask for. Those golden handcuff of your old DP pension will keep you in your place if your too old to start over....

In another place the DB pension was an enticement to do a nasty job. 4 years on the Coke batteries at the steel works got you 5 years towards pension.

Was any of it worth it?
They say you should be happy to work and find a job that makes you happy and gives you a sense of fulfillment.
They say that with a straight face, but I work because I have to.
I learned a little too late I liked being here in my home with my wife and family, work was never the centre of my life or my reason to exist...

Were the promises of your pension kept, and did your union take care of you?

 

[FireChicken]

Treating workers well is not an exclusive to a union based company, and insinuating only unions do so is laughably out of touch with modern days.

I offer all that you've outlined and more without taking a fee from my employers and creating another level of executive fiefdom thats often abused and scandal laden.

I watched a union strike completely destroy the town I grew up in while the union fat cats never suffered one bit. In the end the workers went backwards so just who were they fighting for?

What we needed in past times is not identical to what we need today.

I do believe some unions are good, and some are bad.

We are all going backwards, but some are moving more quickly backwards than others.
If you employer and union are in a deadly embrace of each other's throats that forces both sides to recognize they have to work together to survive and prosper then generally you will. But if your employer has the power to put you on a picket line indefinitely and move the works to another country or place with poorer and more desperate people willing to do it all for less then, the shareholders are the only winners.

The deadly embrace and Faustian deals are what turn awful jobs into the middle class incomes. Now all deals are up for negotiation and all bets are off in the race to the bottom

 

[FireChicken]

Were the promises of your pension kept, and did your union take care of you?

No some promises were kept, its young workers that screwed the worst in a two tier scheme.
New management said the this place is way to top heavy look at all the cars in the lot.
It was hard for the Union to explain to the new foreign overlords that the workers had to all have cars to get to work too.
They still don't get that you can't get everywhere on a bus.

Its those young people that will have to shoulder the tax burden someday and they are having a hell of a time making enough money to join the middle class these days.
But you were not talking to me I see now...

 

[Leo99]

Charging stations are fine if you own your own home, what are city dwellers going to do? Will there be outlets in the sidewalks of NYC? Sorry but I don't see the infrastructure changing fast enough to make this practical and the odd side effect may be, gas powered used cars going up in value. The typical Tesla owner is not the typical urban car owner. NYC and other urban areas where many people still need vehicles are not So Cal Tesla land like. Its a much tougher environment. The current state of development of electric vehicles is very biased toward suburban home owners.

They will charge up the same way they currently get gasoline. Go to a recharge station and get a much charge as they want. Of course the recharge time will have to be about the same time it takes to fill up with gasoline (5 to 10 minutes) and that should be achievable in 15 years.

 

[UncleDave]

No some promises were kept, its young workers that screwed the worst in a two tier scheme.
New management said the this place is way to top heavy look at all the cars in the lot.
It was hard for the Union to explain to the new foreign overlords that the workers had to all have cars to get to work too.
They still don't get that you can't get everywhere on a bus.

Its those young people that will have to shoulder the tax burden someday and they are having a hell of a time making enough money to join the middle class these days.
But you were not talking to me I see now...

Ive watched how buyouts, mergers, and changes help and cripple companies.

I was talking to everyone, Im always interested to hear what people feel their ultimate benefit was and who got screwed or benefited where and why.

the more perspective I have the better rounded leader I become.

 

[UncleDave]

We are all going backwards, but some are moving more quickly backwards than others.
If you employer and union are in a deadly embrace of each other's throats that forces both sides to recognize they have to work together to survive and prosper then generally you will. But if your employer has the power to put you on a picket line indefinitely and move the works to another country or place with poorer and more desperate people willing to do it all for less then, the shareholders are the only winners.

The deadly embrace and Faustian deals are what turn awful jobs into the middle class incomes. Now all deals are up for negotiation and all bets are off in the race to the bottom

What I saw in Peoria scared me for life and also created the rise in offshoring factories altogether. The Caterpillar strike just decimated my town, as the only non caterpillar family around my family

the last union fiasco I encountered was during the build out of Technicolor Sunset Gower facility in hollywood. My buddy long time client was in charge of the whole place at the time. and

We rolled in one morning to a bunch of union knuckle draggers striking (with zero warning) signs picketing everything complaining that Technicolor were hiring non union construction frightening customers and employees away costing millions in work to be delayed.

The whole issue was a fight between 2 different unions the one that finishes the wall and the union that does the floors over exactly where the walls and floors finished. Tech never went outside the union. The whole thing was political designed to put pressure on Technicolor costing my friends and their client tons of money for some mystery mid job shakedown. F those guys.

 

[Pelican]

So GM & Ford are going after electric car buyers which represent 3% of the total market, That's the way to do business.
Watch for GM & Ford to ask governments to subsidize with grants the eCars purchases, for there is such a demand!
As someone else said, where is the infrastructure to support them?

 

[LouC]

How many in NYC own a car compared to how many live there anyway?

When you say city dwellers, you are saying apartment complexes and high rise dwellers, in a downtown area.

Homeowners in the city have no problem.

High rise dwellers typically use public transport more than cars, and their parking planning requirements reinforces this by allowing them a ridiculous ratio of vehicles per bedrooms in the units, often in jammed underground floors.

Many many people in NYC own cars, keep in mind what we natives refer to as 'the city' is Manhattan, there are the outer boroughs, of Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx and Staten Island. These areas have many private homes in addition to apartment buildings, but many do not have garages or driveways, car owners all have to park on the street. There is really no way that I can see NYC easily transitioning to charging stations due the existing housing stock. The current population of NYC is 840 million people.
According to recent census estimates,[1] almost 1.4 million households in New York City own a car compared to 3.1 million total households. This means 45 percent of all households in the city own a car (and almost 3 percent that own three or more!). Ownership is lowest in Manhattan, where only 22 percent of households own a car, while ownership is highest in Staten Island where cars are owned by 83 percent of all households. Queens (62 percent) is also above the city average, while the Bronx (40 percent) and Brooklyn (44 percent) look more like the city as a whole.

So tell me just how this great plan is going to work?

 

[gfh77665]

I have owned Chevy trucks most of my adult life. Although I doubt much of this see reality in the decade(s) ahead, I don't concern myself with it at all. I can live without GM products easily. In fact the last truck I bought was a 2019 RAM. Good bye GM.

 

[UncleDave]

Many many people in NYC own cars, keep in mind what we natives refer to as 'the city' is Manhattan, there are the outer boroughs, of Brooklyn, Queens, The Bronx and Staten Island. These areas have many private homes in addition to apartment buildings, but many do not have garages or driveways, car owners all have to park on the street. There is really no way that I can see NYC easily transitioning to charging stations due the existing housing stock. The current population of NYC is 840 million people.
According to recent census estimates,[1] almost 1.4 million households in New York City own a car compared to 3.1 million total households. This means 45 percent of all households in the city own a car (and almost 3 percent that own three or more!). Ownership is lowest in Manhattan, where only 22 percent of households own a car, while ownership is highest in Staten Island where cars are owned by 83 percent of all households. Queens (62 percent) is also above the city average, while the Bronx (40 percent) and Brooklyn (44 percent) look more like the city as a whole.

So tell me just how this great plan is going to work?

It will work out because power is a lot easier to make accessible than liquid fuel depots.
The pace of change will be slow enough in transition to BEVs for it to work.
Not ideal for heart of city for sure.

 

[Oildudeny]

​

General Motors to stop making gas-powered passenger cars and SUVs by 2035​ Washington Post Article: Jan 28, 2021​ The maker of Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac vehicles said Thursday that all of its passenger cars and sport utility vehicles will be electric starting in 2035, which would make it the first major U.S. carmaker to sunset the internal combustion engine. GM's medium and heavy trucks would still be gas powered. ​ Read more​

There will be one less gm buyer

 

[Wolf359]

I'm not really sure what that whole rant is about.

Did GM really look stupid trying to make a ventilator? It would be if they normally made ventilators.

Now you think they look stupid because they can't build something that they don't normally build but managed to do it in a couple months? It normally takes years to go from concept to production. And they fulfilled their contract so I'm not even sure why you were mad at them to begin with. Maybe we should start with unrealistic expectations, it always takes years to go from design to production. Only way GM and Ford were able to cut down on that was due to partner with other ventilator manufacturers who already had a proven design but a small production line.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The current population of NYC is 840 million people.

Perhaps check your numbers?
The US population is about 335 million, I believe.

 

[Skeet6]

Perhaps check your numbers?
The US population is about 335 million, I believe.

About 8.5 million I think. (Although, after Covid, it's probably down a bit - mass exodus continues, home values in my area of eastern PA have soared.)
Mike B

 

[JeffKeryk]

About 8.5 million I think. (Although, after Covid, it's probably down a bit - mass exodus continues, home values in my area of eastern PA have soared.)
Mike B

Makes sense. He probably missed a decimal point.

 

[aquariuscsm]

The world revolves around fossil fuels. This will never happen.

 

[M56959]

Going to end here, going in circles and tiresome off topic bloviating,